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Tour Down Harder - Voting

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emmea90
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Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 11/02/2018, 0:20

Contest #1 - Tour Down Harder (Category 2) - Voting

In this topic you can vote for the Tour Down Harder Contest, according to the following rules.

PLEASE READ ALL THE POST BEFORE VOTING
How to vote

1 - You have to judge the track according to the requirements
Finally, Tour Down Under organization decide to improve the route drawing a route that suits better the climbers like Quintana but is also balanced to permit to compete also to time triallist like Dumoulin.

You are called to redesign Tour Down Under making an harder and better route. You have to keep the format of a six day World Tour race with an end in one of the biggest city of South Australia. You can choose for the finish one between Adelaide, Melbourne, Canberra and Sidney. Of course, you have to insert a time trial in the route.
2 - You have to write in a post your best FIVE routes, from worse to best, providing a brief motivation for each choice
FIFTH PLACE
(Motivation)

FOURTH PLACE
(Motivation)

THIRD PLACE
(Motivation)

SECOND PLACE
(Motivation)

FIRST PLACE
(Motivation)
How does it work?
- First choice got 6 points, second 4, third 3, fourth 2 and fifth 1 point.
- Presentation bonus grant you 3 points
- Ranking will be made according to points obtained
- In case of equality I will decide the winner
- YOU CAN'T VOTE FOR YOURSELF
- You can comment other people's reviews regarding your routes
- YOU CAN'T CHANGE YOUR VOTE ONCE SUBMITTED

Who can vote?
- Every user that submitted a contest (full points vote)
- Every user in the La Flamme Rouge Staff (Emmea90, Pigna, Sagan99, Matthorse, Nasdon33, Linkinito, Bose12)
- Every user that has registered BEFORE 11 february 2018 and has at least 10 tracks in the editor. In this case, his votes counts half of the points scale

Penalties
- Every user that submitted a contest and doesn't submit a valid vote (with 5 choices and motivations) will get a 10 points penalty for all his routes.
- It's FORBBIDDEN to ask for votes. Who will be caught asking for a vote to some users will get a 50 points penalty in first instance, then the exclusion from all the contests of the year
- Vote penalties for unpracticable routes will be assigned by staff during this phase

Deadline for vote phase is 24 february 2018, h 23.59 (two weeks)

Submitted Routes
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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by pesallu » 15/02/2018, 18:49

emmea90 wrote:
15/02/2018, 17:18
Let's start with my reviews, penalty and - finally - the votes. I will post it in more posts due to different moments of reviewing and post sizes.

Penalty Scale
- Unpracticable start/finish/stage portions: 5 points (for each one)
- Violation of UCI Rules: 10 points
- Not placing sprints and/or refuel: 3 points
- Long transfers: 5 points (for each one)
- Violation of the contest rules: 50 points penalty (maximum)

Simone.Galbiati
Design choice seems to be good. The arrive of Cuddle Creak is clearly not practicable due to space (it's a way to a private house). Even the second finish is in the middle of nowhere, you cannot see the road from Satellite. Paracombe is the same, finishing in a dirty road of a private farm. Doing for times Willunga hill is a lack of fantasy. In addition to that, you didn't place any sprint or refuel. I am still surprised by the fact someone voted this route as his first choice. 28 points penalty

Lorenzo.Ciconte
I won't lose a second to rate this route, rules states "you have to insert a time trial in the route" - here there isn't. 50 points penalty

Paganini
First notice: stage 5 is 245 Kms long, a clear violation of UCI rules (max 240, we are not in a GT). I personally like so much the first stage. Baw baw it's a monster in this route, it's like having a little Mortirolo or Zoncolan in it, will clearly has an huge impact probably overcoming the ITT by far. I like the choice of dirty roads but as i said the stage it at least 50 kms longer than it should have been. I think there is a problem in the last stage: in any case, a sprint stage isn't good in WT short races (only really few has it) but if you do it, like TDU, at least use a circuit and not a long transfer stage. 10 points penalty

ChrisBorto11
First of all: transfers. I can barely accept Traralgon to Healesville (153,7 Km by car) and Mount Baller to Violet Town (125,6 Km) but the last transfer is really exagerated and not justified (we are not in a GT). First stage has sprints with no locations, second stage doesn't have them. You should've taken all the time inserting them instead of submitting your route a LOT earlier. In Albury you did a sprint with TWO useless 90° turn in the last Km arriving at the end of THIS small alley between two houses https://prnt.sc/if56gx . About Table top, i like the idea of the ITT, not to ending it in the middle of nowhere naming the finish as a bus stop. The stage of Murray Gorge is a little piece of art with an unpracticable section leading to a sprint with no name that is currently driven back and forth on the same road with a KOM sprint double and a finish in a narrow road in the middle of a forest. About canberra, see Paganini and don't place the finish 20 meters after a turn. 10 points penalty

Belgian4444
Not much to say to this route. Ok for the first two stages even if I would've preferred first stage to sprinters as you are denying them the last. There are no errors in the route even if I am thinking is not hard enougth for 22 Kms ITT in the end. No penalties

Anthofou31-v1
I can't go over the fact that the transfer to Benalla is over 300 Kms in the middle of the race. Phesant Gully stage ends on a gravel road in the middle of nowhere. About stage 3, i won't paralyze Australia Capital for a middle stage. Arrive on the Threbdo Pass has no sense: there is just the road, no space, not even a ski station. In Healesville you arrive in the service road of the church, on the dirt. This won't cost a penalty, but I am speaking about balancing routes for ITTs and Climbers and you insert a CTT in the final, the best gift you can do to climbers? Seriously? You also forgot to place sprints. 18 points penalty

Mauro
Transfer from Perisher Ski Resort is long but not so long to have a penalty. I like the first stage, ok for the choice of finish on Keira. I think the balance is good, route is not hard as expected but better than the normal one. The final stage, instead, exceed UCI rules about circuit on the first circuit (and is at limit about the second one) 10 points penalty

Ded-Moroz
Ok the choices for the first two stages, even if Teringie Hill is at limit. I really like someone with the "big balls" staying in Adelaide but the Mount Lofty isn't enought alone with removing Willunga Hill from the route. Anyway, there are no big errors. No penalties

Lorenzo.Tripodi
There are two transfers on the map that are just "WTF. DID YOU REALLY MAKE THAT" and I don't even know to report you what they are because it will be clear as soon as you see the map also to Andrea Bocelli. First of all: can I precisely ask what the hell are these? https://prnt.sc/if5zxs second thing: how do you assign KOM cats? How could hillview be 1st and Randell being harder than marble hill? For the rest the route is not wrong but you simply tried to insert 3 MTF and hope it will be good. About Sidney stage, Read Paganini, this one is not admittable. https://prnt.sc/if659p . Even there, i am suprised someone voted this route as first. 15 points penalty

mels2309
At first impact the route sounds good, at least there is some good ideas behind it. Short stages, ITT before the rest, opening for sprinters. Even if it doesn't convince me fully, this route is good without any errors. No penalties

Rmax85
One of the best routes until now with no errors and difficult increasing during the race until the summit finish. I personally would've done the Donna Buang with no other 1 Cat climbs before and shortened to 25 Kms the final ITT. No penalties

PesalluV1
I think Three stages > 200 Km at this point of the season are really too much. We have a serious problem in the ITT: doing a circuit three times. Not safe for riders and team cars, not safe for comprehension of the results an in addition to that you cannot have the starting pad in the middle of the race. I don't really like the idea of Donna Buang being climbed twice in two days and the MTF even in the final stage. Also ITT is too short compared to the difficulties there. 5 point penalty

PesalluV2
First thing i notice: "WHAT THE HELL?". The idea of going into Tasmania is really, really bad because it involves a long transfer really bad do to in the middle of a 6 day race. The Mount Wellington ITT completely made the route unbalanced for the climbers 5 point penalty

Continue...
LOL I've seen Gordon Ramsey insults less harsh than this :asd:

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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 15/02/2018, 18:50

pesallu wrote:
15/02/2018, 18:49

LOL I've seen Gordon Ramsey insults less harsh than this :asd:
It's the first contest, i was good. Usually I am far worse. |maro
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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 15/02/2018, 20:34

Review continuation

Alfa
Route seems good and without errors. Good choice of the stages and climbs, maybe a bit longer. No Penalties

Dennis1107
I don't like the choice of starting so North then go down south. The route is in general good even if I found stage 5 a bit too hard and overtooking the others. I don't like the finish of stage 6 on MTF. No Penalties

Anthofou31-v2
I think at first instance that this route is insanely harder, even above the normal. This is hard even for Zomegnan. Anyway the only error here is not inserting the sprints 3 points penalty

Taaramae_Crack
In first instance, i really appreciate to organize all the stages in a small area like the real tdu. The route here in my opinion is too easy with Charlotte Pass having too easy slopes. The final stage is not middle mountain and won't make gaps as it's too easy. Anyway no bad errors. No Penalties

Mike4296-v1
I really like the 1st stage. The 2nd is maybe too hard at this point because is probably the hardest middle mountan stage, even harder than the 5. Good choice place the MTF before it but to have attacks there you must not have ITT as finish. Ok for the ITT length No Penalties

Mike4296-v2
Not so much to say. Maybe for the expliosivity and period of the year this version is preferable. No Penalties

Aramiss_Swisscycling
There are three transfers too long. The first one is after Victor Harbour, the other two are back and forth from Tanzania. It's a pity because the route has not error. It's not a good route by tecnichal point of view: the second stage is easier, the itt + sprint final is absolutely a no and the mountain is too predominant. But at least it isn't draw at the cock of dog like other routes. Unfortunately you got a penalty for the three too long tranfers 15 point penalty

Nat63
I think the start is really, really too hard for the 1st stage. The rest of the choices is more or less good, the hills in last stage useless. No Penalties

David.Tuci-V1
No sprints inserted. In first stage there are sections back and forth. In kinglake west arrive is in the middle of a gravel road. For the rest the route doesn't say me too much 13 points penalty

Pr8
Good logistical choice for the stages. The route is good with no errors and three interesting stage for the GC. The MTF is not too important on the other stages. No Penalties

Continue...
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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 16/02/2018, 10:32

David.tuci-V2
Even in this route you seems too busy to insert name of KOMS or intermediate sprints. Please check where you put the finish of a mass sprint in Bendigo: a 90° turn 300 meters to the end, a bridge, a small road with a traffic split in the middle. https://prnt.sc/ifgzd4 . About Valva recreation stage i don't understand why you put the finish there and i don't understand why you put the finish in a service road of the reserve https://prnt.sc/ifh0c3. The finish of Kosciusko is clearly not practicable, also the stage is too hard compared to the rest. I was starting to write "the only thing you do right it's the Canberra circuit" but i noticed that you didn't do a circuit and in addition you also insertd a lot of turn in Stirling park before the sprint 13 points penalty

Marco.berri
In first stage you have a clearly not-categorized KOM. Good choice and good stage design for the 2nd one. In final stage i would've preferred a final circuit. Surely THIS https://prnt.sc/ifh9qd is the right way to make a dangerous route and paralyzing traffic of an entire city. Despite those two root is over the average. No penalties

Mountain Master
In Tanunda i would've moved the finish in the way immediately before the big parking. Good stage with Lofty preceeded by Marble hill. I think this is the best route until now because you didn't took the easy way going into Melbourne Zone. No penalties

Tomrenm
First: i don't like the ITT+flat finish. Ok for the saddleback stage. The route is good, only i would've preferred the ITT at the 2nd stage shifting all the rest after it. I have some concerns on sprinting in a large roundabout on the last stage. No penalties

Dodani
The route has no errors but the whole idea behind it is just to add a couple of small times and increase the circuit of Willunga hill, really poor. I don't understand why the stage 4 is different in style and it's only 21 kms long. If it's a circuit is too long. No penalties

Xander66
I really like the choice and the idea behind it but in my opinion this route is not so "harder" than the classic one as expected. No penalties

danielcp327
Good route with right stage distribution even if I would've liked No penalties

Lorenzo.ciconte
I made a further review after noticing that stage 6 is clearly an ITT even if marked as flat, you got 5 pts penalty for this. Sprints are missing. In the first stage a 50 kms white road is a total madness. Disposition of the stages is not bad but the risk is that Mont Baw Baw will be too central on the route and i won't have made it in the descent sense. Route is not bad at the end. 8 points penalty
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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 16/02/2018, 10:52

My vote at the end of reviews

1 point to Dennis1107
Could've been more with different design choices

2 points to Tomrenm
Some errors in the final but it's indeed a podium route

3 points to Mike4296-v2
Better route with good lenght

4 points to Pr8
Good route with good choices.

6 points to Mountain Master
He designed one of the best routes indeed and i want to prize him also for the choice of staying in Adelaide Zone, the original zone of TDU
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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by david.tuci » 16/02/2018, 11:34

I will be more accurate for my Giros 59@@

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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by Dennis1107 » 19/02/2018, 13:18

Fifth Place - 1 point: Rmax85 (maps/tours/view/8095)
A very good route but the time trial for me is too long.

Fourth Place - 2 points: Xander66 (maps/tours/view/8330)
An easy route with a nice fifth stage.

Third Place - 3 points: Mike4296-v1 (maps/tours/view/8080)
Good route, the fifth stage is so nervous and I like that.

Second Place - 4 points: Ded-Moroz (maps/tours/view/8125)
Easy route with short time trial and two very interesting top finish.

First Place - 6 points: Pr8 (maps/tours/view/8213)
Nice route, the best combination of climbs and time trial.

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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by Aramis_SwissCycling » 19/02/2018, 17:00

Fifth Place - 1 point: Mike4296 v1(maps/viewtrack/185913)
The stages are really hard and it's all around Melbourne so there's not too many transfers. I love the fifth stage !

Fourth Place - 2 points: Mountain Master (maps/tours/view/8367)
The Tour is very well, varied with an interesting final stage in time trial but the stages are too short.

Third Place - 3 points: Pr8(maps/viewtrack/188210)
Super Tour ! It's hard ! It could be better with a longer time trial.

Second Place - 4 points: Nat63(maps/tours/view/8342)
This Tour is just crazy with its first high mountain stage and the final climb is super hard! The departure city is interesting because not too well known.

First Place - 6 points: Pesallu v2 (maps/tours/view/8222)
The 4 stages in Tasmania are just super ! The mountain TT is a really good idea. :ahahah:

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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by Paganini » 20/02/2018, 9:18

emmea90 wrote:
15/02/2018, 17:18


Paganini
First notice: stage 5 is 245 Kms long, a clear violation of UCI rules (max 240, we are not in a GT). I personally like so much the first stage. Baw baw it's a monster in this route, it's like having a little Mortirolo or Zoncolan in it, will clearly has an huge impact probably overcoming the ITT by far. I like the choice of dirty roads but as i said the stage it at least 50 kms longer than it should have been. I think there is a problem in the last stage: in any case, a sprint stage isn't good in WT short races (only really few has it) but if you do it, like TDU, at least use a circuit and not a long transfer stage. 10 points penalty
Can I save my ass saying that every track includes a fictive start that can be <10 km long? :asd:

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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 20/02/2018, 9:21

Paganini wrote:
20/02/2018, 9:18
emmea90 wrote:
15/02/2018, 17:18


Paganini
First notice: stage 5 is 245 Kms long, a clear violation of UCI rules (max 240, we are not in a GT). I personally like so much the first stage. Baw baw it's a monster in this route, it's like having a little Mortirolo or Zoncolan in it, will clearly has an huge impact probably overcoming the ITT by far. I like the choice of dirty roads but as i said the stage it at least 50 kms longer than it should have been. I think there is a problem in the last stage: in any case, a sprint stage isn't good in WT short races (only really few has it) but if you do it, like TDU, at least use a circuit and not a long transfer stage. 10 points penalty
Can I save my ass saying that every track includes a fictive start that can be <10 km long? :asd:
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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by Paganini » 20/02/2018, 10:01

Comunisti! |berlu

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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by Pr8 » 21/02/2018, 17:54

Fifth Place - 1 point: Rmax85 (maps/tours/view/8095)
I don't like at all the planimetry, I would have preferred a route passing through a restricted area. However the race is well tracked (maybe a bit too long).

Fourth Place - 2 points: Mounatin Master (maps/tours/view/8367)
A good example of hard race in Adelaide region, but less hard than Ded-Moroz's one.

Third Place - 3 points: Dennis1107 (maps/tours/view/8132)
Nice idea to track the race along the australian coast. I see several interesting finishes. The last stage is too long.

Second Place - 4 points: Mike4296-v2 (maps/tours/view/8073)
Very spectacular race! A very good way to use the Melbourne region. What a pity for the white road in the descent from Cherokee Road (2nd stage)!

First Place - 6 points: Ded-Moroz (maps/tours/view/8125)
Cool! Very nice and hard road in Adelaide region. Not easy! Right the length of the ITT.

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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by mauro » 22/02/2018, 10:47

Fifth Place - 1 point : Belgian4444

Everything is perfect until the penultimate stage ... but a time trial of 22 km in January you can not really see !!!

Fourth Place - 2 points - Mels2309

Interesting path, not too exaggerated in difficulties and slightly above the typical standards of the month of January. As for the most demanding stages, the route is reminiscent of the Vuelta a San Juan

Third place - 3 points - Mike4296-v2

Complete route, with two mountain stages more challenging than those of Ded-Moroz and Dennis1107 (but I preferred to promote tracks with ascents not too difficult for the month of January) and two "icing on the cake": two stages of hills that recall the Liege-Bastogne-Liege.

Second Place - 4 points - Dennis1107

We are a step below the Ded-Moroz route. If the individual time trial had been shorter than about 4-5 km the paths would be roughly classified on the same level. Furthermore, I personally prefer that the stopwatch do not face each other before the mountain stages, especially if it presents an important distance

First Place - 6 points - Ded-Moroz

I have seen more challenging routes than this, but considering the season (January) is ideal for starting the year. In fact, not too demanding climbs can be enough to bring out runners who are on the field: see, for example, the repeated successes of Richie Porte at Willunga Hill. Perfect the length of the individual time trial, always related to the season

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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by pesallu » 22/02/2018, 16:27

Fifth Place - 1 point: MountainMaster (maps/tours/view/8367)
My point of view is that the presentation is the most important bit of a tracking contest. And you know how to do it. But I think Adelaide region is too soft comparing with victoria
Fourth Place - 2 points: taaramae_crack (maps/tours/view/8191)
Your tour deserves to be in the top5 of the contest and your presentation is one of the best ones I've seen but I think there's way too much stages in Canberra metropolitan area

Third Place - 3 points: Alfa (maps/tours/view/8295)
It's a good route, but the initial time trial is too short to be decisive, as I see it.

Second Place - 4 points: Aramis_SwissCycling (maps/tours/view/8163)
It's a hard tour and i like it, as it includes the astonishing Mount Baw Baw. The only bad thing I see it's that there a lot of transfers. Maybe I am not allowed to say this as I do it as well
First Place - 6 points: Paganini (maps/tours/view/8131)
Although you got a penalty, the Mount Baw Baw stage is definitely the best stage in the contest. Also, your presentation with that map is excellent. Well deserved first place

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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by marco.berri » 23/02/2018, 22:41

I'll Write the reasons why the tracker didn't win beacouse I think that all of tours I chose are almost perfect.
FIFTH PLACE: mels2309: maps/tours/view/8174
I don't like so much the location becouse of the low density(of people) and the mountain stage is maybe to hard for the 1° race of the year.I also considered the high temperatures that could be in Australia in January.

FOURTH PLACE: Mountain Master: maps/tours/view/8367
26km of time trial could be to many for a not so strong and long tour.

THIRD PLACE: tomrenm: maps/tours/view/8358
Some starts and finish points of the stages are not so appropriate( narrow streets, no parkings around, .....)


SECOND PLACE: Pr8: maps/tours/view/8213
in the 4° stage there's a descent on gravel, dangerous with the bad weather.

FIRST PLACE: Mike4296-v2: maps/tours/view/8073
A part of the time trial is on the tram tracks and in another stage you have to cross twice in the last 10 km the train tracks. They are not big problem if you change thel street lane in the time trial and if you stop the trains in the other stage.

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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by Xander66 » 24/02/2018, 17:25

5th place: pesallu-v2
I really like the idea of a start in Tasmania. It might not be easy to organize with the long trip after stage 4, but the concept is lovely.

4th place: MountainMaster
Just because of the fact that you created the race around Adelaide you already earn these points. It’s a nice track, but I think you could’ve done more in stage 5. To me it’s just the normal TDU stage to Willunga Hill, I had hoped to see a new, more original idea.

3rd place: Pr8
A great track, I just think it might be a bit too hard for this time of the year. But the contest was a Tour Down ‘Harder’, and you did make it hard so I can’t blame you for that. I really like the final of stage 3, I would love to see this one happen for real.

2nd place: Ded-Moroz
Great that you chose to stay in the region of Adelaide, like the real TDU. But personally I miss a flat/downhill finish after a tough climb. The uphill finishes might cause the GC-riders to wait ‘till the final climb. But otherwise a lovely track!

1st place: Belgian4444
I promised myself to give my 6 point to someone who made a race in the region of Adelaide, but you made me decide differently. Every stage is something different, every kind of rider has a chance to win a stage. Stage 5 to Healesville really did it for me, congratulations!

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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by Paganini » 24/02/2018, 19:19

My votes:

5th place Belgian4444
A varied mix of stages. I prefer south side of Macedon, but as a first stage it's ok.
The last stage is perhaps too easy for the GC but it promises an entertaining last hour.
A single stage for sprinters is too few, perhaps :scare:

4th place mels2309
Perhaps the ITT it's a little short but the other stages are nice.

3rd place Rmax85
Good route. Very similar to Pr8 but I prefer having the ITT before the summit finish

2nd placePr8
Nice route with varied stages. I would have preferred Donna Buang before a more entertaining stage, but yours is a well created and realistic route.

1st place :beer: Mike4296-v1
The race that seems the most elegant to me. Good choice of placing the walls stage after the summit finish. Of the two versions I prefer the one with the higher lengths.

I hope that everyone in the next contests creates a short presentation -even the profiles only- for the race, it's very very very much readable this way!

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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by Dodani » 24/02/2018, 23:32

Fifth Place - 1 point: lorenzo.ciconte
Hard climb in the stage 4

Fourth Place - 2 points: MountainMaster
I like the last three stages.

Third Place - 3 points: danielcp327
Good stage 3 and good stage of mountain in the stage 4.

Second Place - 4 points: Pr8
Good medium mountain stages

First Place - 6 points: Anthofou31
Every dat a lot of hills and for me it's a interesting Tour for climbers.

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Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by danielcp327 » 24/02/2018, 23:44

I'll submit my votes at 00:15 more or less due to work. Hope you understand. Thank you.

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danielcp327
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Joined: 13/07/2017, 21:40

Re: Tour Down Harder - Voting

Post by danielcp327 » 25/02/2018, 0:43

Fifth Place - 1 point: Belgian4444 (maps/tours/view/8086)
A good tour with great stages, like the Healesville one, but the first stage is maybe too hard to be a first stage, and the third one needs more action (in my opinion). But, overall, it's a very variated (and good!) tour. :ahah:

Fourth Place - 2 points: Rmax85 (maps/tours/view/8095)
Not as hard as I like, but very good anyway. I like the Bethanga stage, the final would be very exciting if the your was real. The Donna Buang stage is nice because you used another zone before arriving to the proper climb. And the ending with a 30km in Melboure is a little bit too much (with max 20km would be a lot better), but I also used the 30km final ITT method so I can't really tell you that that's bad. Very decent tour. R&R

Third Place - 3 points: Mauro (maps/tours/view/8117)
I especially like this tour because it mixes (I din't know if mixes exists but I honestly don't care) two regions/big city zones that were a little bit unused in this contest: Sydney and Canberra. The first stage is original, I quite like the third one, and the fifth one is amazing, although I'm not really a fan of the lenght of it and of the white road at the end. But, nice tour anyway! clap

Second Place - 4 points: Dennis1107 (maps/tours/view/8132)
This tour is very similar to Mauro's, and although he submitted it before, this one is like more special for me. The Port Kembla finish would be unpreditable in real life, and I like the way you mix the finish in a big city with a summit finish (Black Mountain). That's something that I like. Good job. |tev

First Place - 6 points: MountainMaster (maps/tours/view/8367)
Had to be this one. Using the original zone is something to take in count (is take in count well said?), because in Adelaide there's not a lot of mountain, and although it's not super hard, you made the best you could do in this zone, and that's great. Very good job. You're my winner! Congrats! RULES |rulla

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