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Winter Stage Races - Voting

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emmea90
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Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 14/03/2018, 10:09

Contest #2 - Winter Stage Races (Category 2) - Voting

In this topic you can vote for the Winter Stage Races, according to the following rules.

PLEASE READ ALL THE POST BEFORE VOTING
How to vote

1 - You have to judge the track according to the requirements
We propose to merge those races in a mini grand-tour of 13 stages, starting from Friday 2 and ending on Wednesday 14 March 2018

Rules to follow
- You must start in one of the districts near Paris
- You must end in center Italy, preferably on Adriatico
- Col d'Eze must be inserted in the route with Nice hosting a stage finish
- The six stages before Thursday 8 must be set ALL in France, the six stages after Thursday 8 must be set ALL in Italy
- You had to take into account that race are settled in early march, so, for example, there is snow limit. You have to avoid high altitudes. You cannot go above 1700 meters in French stages and 1800 meters in Italian stages.
- You must insert at least one mountain stage in france and at least one mountain stage in italy
- Those races are stages races but are also a preparation races for Sanremo. You must provide GC battle with Mountains and Time Trial but the focus should also be about mixed / medium mountain stages making riders like Gilbert, Alaphilippe, Kwiatkowski the chance to feature in at least 3-4 stages.
2 - You have to write in a post your best FIVE routes, from worse to best, providing a brief motivation for each choice
FIFTH PLACE
(Motivation)

FOURTH PLACE
(Motivation)

THIRD PLACE
(Motivation)

SECOND PLACE
(Motivation)

FIRST PLACE
(Motivation)
How does it work?
- First choice got 6 points, second 4, third 3, fourth 2 and fifth 1 point.
- Presentation bonus grant you 3 points (we will add later with penalties who took the bonus)
- Ranking will be made according to points obtained
- In case of equality I will decide the winner
- YOU CAN'T VOTE FOR YOURSELF
- You can also comment other people's reviews regarding your or other one's routes
- YOU CAN'T CHANGE YOUR VOTE ONCE SUBMITTED

Who can vote?
- Every user that submitted a contest (full points vote)
- Every user in the La Flamme Rouge Staff (Emmea90, Pigna, Sagan99, Matthorse, Nasdon33, Linkinito, Bose12)
- Every user that has registered BEFORE 13 march 2018 and has at least 10 tracks in the editor. In this case, his votes counts half of the points scale

Penalties
- Every user that submitted a contest and doesn't submit a valid vote (with 5 choices and motivations) will get a 10 points penalty for all his routes.
- It's FORBBIDDEN to ask for votes. Who will be caught public or privately asking for a vote to some users will get a 50 points penalty in first instance, then the exclusion from all the contests of the year
- Vote penalties for unpracticable routes will be assigned by staff during this phase

Deadline for vote phase is 28 march 2018, h 23.59 (two weeks)

Submitted Routes
Emilio.torre: maps/tours/view/8401
Alfa: maps/tours/view/8397
Simone.galbiati: maps/tours/view/8399
Pereiroseleccion: maps/tours/view/8389
Crisborto11: maps/tours/view/8412
Pierluca.ferretto: maps/tours/view/8393
Belgian4444: maps/tours/view/8406
Mauro: maps/tours/view/8442
Ded-Moroz: maps/tours/view/8434
AZ1234T: maps/tours/view/8410
Rmax85: maps/tours/view/8452
railxmig: maps/tours/view/8534
pabloagb: maps/tours/view/8549
Xiky: maps/tours/view/8560
grimsel99: maps/tours/view/8470
mels2309: maps/tours/view/8480
tomremn: maps/tours/view/8507
lorenzo.tripodi: maps/tours/view/8559
Rdz1201: maps/tours/view/8591
Dennis1107: maps/tours/view/8409
jibvalverde: maps/tours/view/8572
Paganini: maps/tours/view/8472
Pesallu: maps/tours/view/8438
antoinvds: maps/tours/view/8641
mike4296: maps/tours/view/8433
pr8: maps/tours/view/8493
lorenzo.ciconte: maps/tours/view/8654
alexandre.philippon: maps/tours/view/8650
Sagan99: maps/tours/view/8583
IamCeeKae: maps/tours/view/8684
Bouzyboubou: maps/tours/view/8398
ciro.abete: maps/tours/view/8407
xflyinghighx: maps/tours/view/8688
CaramelMou: maps/tours/view/8520
Xander66: maps/tours/view/8432
Gamers21: maps/tours/view/8696
Taaramae_crack: maps/tours/view/8608
matteo.zwaenepoel: maps/tours/view/8625
Pincoletto: maps/tours/view/8612
Software Engineer, Cycling Fanatic

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Belgian4444
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Posts: 20
Joined: 08/02/2017, 13:38

Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by Belgian4444 » 25/03/2018, 0:14

emmea90 wrote:
24/03/2018, 18:19
Reviews - Part 3
Belgian4444
Like the idea of prologue but didn't respect the idea of the route. You had to start in one of the center NEAR paris, not IN paris. The arrive on Cote de Lorien is terrible. Lentignano is a terrible finish as probably doesn't reach 100 inhabitants. Castelluccio, instead, it has 150. Stage of Ascoli has imho a too hard MTF for this route in an Juniores stages. There is no a flat itt in the whole route. 3 points presentation, 60 points penalty.
I'm sorry, I don't like to dispute these kind of things (I agree with the stage finishes, my bad), but you said districts which I thought translates to "arrondissements": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrondissements_of_Paris and you seem to interpret it as a "department": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%8Ele-de-France.

If you want to keep it, no problem I understand, but I feel 50pts is a bit heavy for a misinterpretation, because I wouldn't have had any problem with staring in a different location .

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emmea90
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Posts: 635
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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 25/03/2018, 10:13

Belgian4444 wrote:
25/03/2018, 0:14
emmea90 wrote:
24/03/2018, 18:19
Reviews - Part 3
Belgian4444
Like the idea of prologue but didn't respect the idea of the route. You had to start in one of the center NEAR paris, not IN paris. The arrive on Cote de Lorien is terrible. Lentignano is a terrible finish as probably doesn't reach 100 inhabitants. Castelluccio, instead, it has 150. Stage of Ascoli has imho a too hard MTF for this route in an Juniores stages. There is no a flat itt in the whole route. 3 points presentation, 60 points penalty.
I'm sorry, I don't like to dispute these kind of things (I agree with the stage finishes, my bad), but you said districts which I thought translates to "arrondissements": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrondissements_of_Paris and you seem to interpret it as a "department": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%8Ele-de-France.

If you want to keep it, no problem I understand, but I feel 50pts is a bit heavy for a misinterpretation, because I wouldn't have had any problem with staring in a different location .
Good point. My fault in not using the right word. 50 pts penalty removed.
Software Engineer, Cycling Fanatic

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Dennis1107
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Posts: 19
Joined: 24/01/2016, 11:35

Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by Dennis1107 » 25/03/2018, 13:17

Fifth Place - 1 point: lorenzo.tripodi (maps/tours/view/8559)
A very good route, well balanced.

Fourth Place - 2 points: RdZ1201 (maps/tours/view/8591)
Nice route, the stage 11 is very good.

Third Place - 3 points: xiky (maps/tours/view/8560)
A very strong route, there are 3 mountain stages with interesting top finish.

Second Place - 4 points: mels2309 (maps/tours/view/8480)
It's probably the best route but the last time trial is too short.

First Place - 6 points: Rmax85 (maps/tours/view/8452)
The best route, the stage 4 is very well.

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AZ1234T
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Posts: 10
Joined: 24/12/2017, 15:51

Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by AZ1234T » 25/03/2018, 21:38

FIFTH PLACE : Taaramae_crack
Motivation : I like the Italian part and the Nice's stage but I don't think that Gilbert can won 3 stages.

FOURTH PLACE : CaramelMou
Motivation : A good tour and a very good stage with Mont Faron but I think that a puncher can't won 3 stages too.

THIRD PLACE : Belgian4444
Motivation : I like this tour but the 11th stage is too short.

SECOND PLACE : Ded-Moroz
Motivation : A very good tour and good TT/mountain balance, I really like the finish in Sassotetto arrived.

FIRST PLACE : pr8
Motivation : This tour is the first thanks to the Mont Ventoux's stage.

And congratulation for everybody!!! clap

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tomrenm
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Posts: 13
Joined: 28/03/2017, 17:09

Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by tomrenm » 26/03/2018, 0:44

FIFTH PLACE - Sagan99
The route is good, with several interesting stages. The two mountain stages aren't too dificult, so the climbers would have some problems to earn a big gap, but the last TT isn't too long compared to the mountains. Some small start/finish destinations in Italy.

FOURTH PLACE - railxmig
Cobbles make the race interesting. There are several mountain stages, but not too hard, which means the race won't be won in a single stage. The TTs length is nice. But, don't you like the sprinters? Bad chances for pure sprinters. One long transfer and some small start/finish destinations.

THIRD PLACE - Rmax85
Nice route for the puncheurs. Not that good for the climbers, and the TTs are too long compared to the difficulties of the mountain stages. Should be more stages for the sprinters too. The third place is recieved because of the good organisation of the tour, that means no long transfers and good start/finish destinations.

SECOND PLACE - Pincoletto
Good and balanced route. Maybe the mountain stages are a bit too easy. Anyway that means the medium stages would be more important to the GC. Some small start/finish destinations could be changed.

FIRST PLACE - Pr8
The best route! Good combination of stages for sprinters, puncheurs, climbers and TTs. No big errors in the organisation part. I think the Ventoux stage is a little bit too hard in this race, but since this race never has been arranged, it's hard to know.

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Belgian4444
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Posts: 20
Joined: 08/02/2017, 13:38

Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by Belgian4444 » 26/03/2018, 9:43

emmea90 wrote:
25/03/2018, 10:13
Belgian4444 wrote:
25/03/2018, 0:14
emmea90 wrote:
24/03/2018, 18:19
Reviews - Part 3
Belgian4444
Like the idea of prologue but didn't respect the idea of the route. You had to start in one of the center NEAR paris, not IN paris. The arrive on Cote de Lorien is terrible. Lentignano is a terrible finish as probably doesn't reach 100 inhabitants. Castelluccio, instead, it has 150. Stage of Ascoli has imho a too hard MTF for this route in an Juniores stages. There is no a flat itt in the whole route. 3 points presentation, 60 points penalty.
I'm sorry, I don't like to dispute these kind of things (I agree with the stage finishes, my bad), but you said districts which I thought translates to "arrondissements": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrondissements_of_Paris and you seem to interpret it as a "department": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%8Ele-de-France.

If you want to keep it, no problem I understand, but I feel 50pts is a bit heavy for a misinterpretation, because I wouldn't have had any problem with staring in a different location .
Good point. My fault in not using the right word. 50 pts penalty removed.
No problem, thank you very much

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RdZ1201
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Posts: 4
Joined: 24/02/2016, 15:45

Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by RdZ1201 » 27/03/2018, 15:15

Hi guys,
Here are my votes:

FIFTH PLACE: railxmig
Some great stages to prepare for the Sanremo. The Gerbier de Jonc stage is very good.

FORTH PLACE: Dennis1107
Well balanced route, I really liked the Chalet Reynard stage.

THIRD PLACE: Rmax85
I think you made the best opening stage, the 2nd ITT is also great. Stage 10 is probably too hard with more than 5000m climbing.

SECOND PLACE: Pereiroseleccion
There could be a bit more TT kilometres, but the profiles are great, I really liked the last 3 stages.

FIRST PLACE: mike4296
Perfectly balanced route with the best profiles. I think it's the greatest route.

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Pereiroseleccion
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Posts: 9
Joined: 22/10/2014, 23:46

Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by Pereiroseleccion » 27/03/2018, 17:38

First of all, sorry for my 'google translator' english.

My vote:

FIFTH PLACE: Taaramae_crack

Good ITT balance. Mountain variety but heavy reliance on long climbs.

FOURTH PLACE: Sagan99

Good tour for punchers, but also for climbers and good preparation for San Remo. I’m afraid that there are some arrivals in very tiny places and Majelletta stage is too hard and IMO badly placed.

THIRD PLACE: pr8

Something interesting and varied in each stage. French part is excellent, the italian one not so much, but the final stage is very good.

SECOND PLACE: mels2309

Maybe a bit insufficient ITT and that San Pellegrino in Alpe stage is probably too hard in March. Good variety of stage profiles and distribution of hardness along the route. And great stage in Castelfidardo.


FIRST PLACE: antoinvds

Like the previous one, not excessive kms. Enough ITT. Not exaggerated high montain for this time of the year (Maybe I’d put at least one of the two arrivals after descent or other easier climb) Interesting stages to see attacks from different types of cyclist (passista veloce, uphill finishers, climbers…) and to see changes in GC.

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Rmax85
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Posts: 13
Joined: 13/11/2014, 12:43
Location: France

Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by Rmax85 » 27/03/2018, 21:35

FIFTH PLACE - antoninvds - maps/tours/view/8641

A very good tour, rather well balanced. The stage to Nice is a bit long.

FOURTH PLACE - Mauro - maps/tours/view/8442

Well tracked for punchers. I like Castelnuccio and Camaiore.

THIRD PLACE - Pereiroselection - maps/tours/view/8389

An excellent tour, no so montagnous. I just love the finish of the 8th. stage. Just go see it on google street view ;)

SECOND PLACE - Dennis1107 - maps/tours/view/8409

A very well balanced tour. The stage to Eremo is very good.

FIRST PLACE - Pr8 - maps/tours/view/8493

The best tour, no doubt. Nice finds, good used like the finish on Mont Ventoux. I likethe Poggio San Romualdo too.

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Pincoletto
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Posts: 10
Joined: 10/05/2014, 11:42

Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by Pincoletto » 28/03/2018, 0:49

FIFTH PLACE - Mauro
Very good tour with a lot of interesting stages, especially the stage of "Muri Marchigiani".

FOURTH PLACE - Paganini
This is for me the most complete tour of the contest, but i don't like the last 2 stages.

THIRD PLACE - pr8
I like the stage with alternative Ventoux, really an interesting idea.

SECOND PLACE - Taaramae_crack
Very good and balanced tour, probably the Nice's stage is one of the best in the contest.

FIRST PLACE - Mike4296
For me the best tour, with a pretty combination of stages for sprinters, finisseurs and climbers.
Uno dei pochi sport in cui Berlusconi non abbia investito una lira è il ciclismo, dunque qualcosa di buono deve averlo

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alexandre.philippon
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Posts: 2
Joined: 24/07/2017, 22:12

Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by alexandre.philippon » 28/03/2018, 13:40

5 emilio.torre

All the classics of Paris-Nice or Tirreno are here, not my 1st vote but you have designed the most realistic route.

4 Belgian444

Stage short stage in Italy, well balanced route. Not sure a Cote de Lorien finish is possible.

3 railxmig:

I like the Mont Gerbier de Jonc stage. Nice finish in Italy.

2 lorenzo.ciconte:

French part is really nice. Not sure Col de la Lusette finish is possible but why not.

1 xflyinghighx:

Curious Ventoux stage, nice. I like the Italian part especially the choice of the cities.

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taaramae_crack
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Posts: 31
Joined: 04/11/2014, 19:58

Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by taaramae_crack » 28/03/2018, 18:02

FIFTH PLACE: RdZ1201
You did some really cool individual stages, and your tour is quite balanced, but I think the distribution of them could be much better. You start with the hard stages too early, and then you have some intrascendent stages. The order of last 3 stages isn't the best too: That superhard medium mountain stage in Ancona could block attacks in the mountain stages, and the 30 km TT could block attacks in the MM stage :lol: Even though, I really pleased the outline of the three of them.

FOURTH PLACE: Belgian4444
Correct and original route in general terms. Don't really like ultrashort stages like the Monte Piselli one, even less if the last climb is much harder than the rest of them. Also I don't really understand how you categorised some of your stages, there are 2 or 3 MM stages that can easily end with a massive sprint, and a flat one (Valreas one) that could easily be a MM one. I haven't taken this into account that while judging, but come on, don't fool us :lol: :asd:


THIRD PLACE: Tomrenm
Balanced route, though a bit soft, especially regarding the mountain (which is compensated with not so much TT and hard medium mountain stages, which I have to say I really liked most of them). Last stage can block some attacks in the previous stage. Even though I like its course and the idea, Nyons stage finishes in almost the middle of nowhere. Without this and with some little changes you could have achieved a better place in my ranking. Good job even so.

SECOND PLACE: Xiky
Really interesting individual stages and distribution of them. Good amount of TT but I think there are too many hard stages, specially some of the medium mountain ones, taking into account that you already included 3 mountain stages, 2 of them (the italian ones) pretty hard. Also, some transfers are really long.


FIRST PLACE: pr8
Good general distribution of the stages, and great variety of them, adding some new climbs. I really liked the design of the last stage and of the three mountain stages, though maybe it's a bit too much for only 30 km of TT. Don't know too if the Ventoux stage is actually possible to do, but the idea is pretty cool. Your presentation is one of the best ones too, something I really appreciate because I know it isn't something you do in 10 minutes, and requires some work.

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pabloagb
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Posts: 33
Joined: 18/01/2015, 15:27

Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by pabloagb » 28/03/2018, 19:30

5th place: Pr8
Great stages in both France and Italy. I liked the Mont Ventoux stage a lot. Hovever I think the time trial on the penultimate stage would not favorable to attacking riders, although the last stage is just fine.
4th place: Pereiroseleccion
I liked the build-up to the last stages, although some stages in France could be a bit harder. All the stages near the end are in the correct order. First the time trial and then all of the mountain stages (I am a big fan of your penultimate stage) with an interesting final stage.
3rd place: paganini
Very uninteresting first three stages. But then things a lot better. Two consecutive great stages in France. I loved the design of the stage in Nice. The time trial and the 3 mountain stages are in the correct order, and I loved the stage in Sarnano.
2nd place: xiky
Interesting stages in France (probably the best overall). A fine time trial before the last mountain stages. And, best of all, a wicked final stage. The best I have seen finishing in Sant'Elpidio.
1st place: railxmig
Good stages in France, especially stage 4 in Gerbier de Jonc. Time trial is placed where it needs to be. But, most importantly, and this is why I have given you first place, best designed Italian mountain stages. The stage in Sulmona is what put you over the top.

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CaramelMou
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Posts: 15
Joined: 15/08/2017, 12:53

Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by CaramelMou » 28/03/2018, 20:23

FIFTH PLACE : Pincoletto
Stages 3 and 4 are good but i expected something harder in the Cannes stage. I like the three stages before the last flat ITT but I don't like the idea of finishing with in an ITT.

FOURTH PLACE : railxmig
Some good stages like Mont Gerbier de Jonc (with the Col de la Mure/Serre de la Mure), a quite long ITT before some mountain stages (like the 11th and 12th stage) and a slightly hillty last stage.

THIRD PLACE : mike4296
I like the idea of an early mountain stage and (again) the ITT before some mountains even if the San Giacomo is quite isolated from the other climbs of the day. And i love the last hilly stage.

SECOND PLACE : taaramae_crack
A good route overall, i like the ITT on the third day to create gapes early in the race. A lot of stages with opportunities to get back some time but i think you lost the first place with the ITT on the last day which i find a little boring.

FIRST PLACE : dennis1107
I like most of your stages, even if i prefer a flat itt to balance the entire route. The french part (Lyon, Ventoux, Cannes, Nice) is my favorite but 8th and 10th are quite cool and the last hilly stage makes the difference for the first place.

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lorenzo.ciconte
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Posts: 11
Joined: 16/10/2017, 13:50

Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by lorenzo.ciconte » 28/03/2018, 21:59

alexandre.philippon wrote:
28/03/2018, 13:40

French part is really nice. Not sure Col de la Lusette finish is possible but why not.



It doesn't exceed the limits set by emmea90, i know it's a risky choice but in that area there are several climbs that can be used as an alternative in case of snow,thanks for the vote by the way

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lorenzo.ciconte
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Joined: 16/10/2017, 13:50

Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by lorenzo.ciconte » 28/03/2018, 22:58

emmea90 wrote:
14/03/2018, 10:09
Contest #2 - Winter Stage Races (Category 2) - Voting



Submitted Routes
Emilio.torre: maps/tours/view/8401
Alfa: maps/tours/view/8397
Simone.galbiati: maps/tours/view/8399
Pereiroseleccion: maps/tours/view/8389
Crisborto11: maps/tours/view/8412
Pierluca.ferretto: maps/tours/view/8393
Belgian4444: maps/tours/view/8406
Mauro: maps/tours/view/8442
Ded-Moroz: maps/tours/view/8434
AZ1234T: maps/tours/view/8410
Rmax85: maps/tours/view/8452
railxmig: maps/tours/view/8534
pabloagb: maps/tours/view/8549
Xiky: maps/tours/view/8560
grimsel99: maps/tours/view/8470
mels2309: maps/tours/view/8480
tomremn: maps/tours/view/8507
lorenzo.tripodi: maps/tours/view/8559
Rdz1201: maps/tours/view/8591
Dennis1107: maps/tours/view/8409
jibvalverde: maps/tours/view/8572
Paganini: maps/tours/view/8472
Pesallu: maps/tours/view/8438
antoinvds: maps/tours/view/8641
mike4296: maps/tours/view/8433
pr8: maps/tours/view/8493
lorenzo.ciconte: maps/tours/view/8654
alexandre.philippon: maps/tours/view/8650
Sagan99: maps/tours/view/8583
IamCeeKae: maps/tours/view/8684
Bouzyboubou: maps/tours/view/8398
ciro.abete: maps/tours/view/8407
xflyinghighx: maps/tours/view/8688
CaramelMou: maps/tours/view/8520
Xander66: maps/tours/view/8432
Gamers21: maps/tours/view/8696
Taaramae_crack: maps/tours/view/8608
matteo.zwaenepoel: maps/tours/view/8625
Pincoletto: maps/tours/view/8612
FIFTH PLACE: maps/tours/view/8608 taaramae_crack
nice mileage, balanced route, I really like the Grasse stage, I would've skipped the finish in Siena 'cause it belongs to the closest world tour race

FOURTH PLACE maps/tours/view/8608 Rmax85
really hard and exciting route, I love the Pian del Falco mountaintop finish, maybe too many 1600+ climbs

THIRD PLACE ciro.abete maps/tours/view/8407
demanding course, fantastic stages, especially stage 4, 8 and 12 are among the best designed tracks

SECOND PLACE lorenzo.tripodi maps/tours/view/8559
cobble climb in Genoa, two very hard mountaintop finishes and a very-well balanced course, Porto sant'Elpidio reminds me the 2013 edition of TA

FIRST PLACE Pr8 maps/tours/view/8493
the first stage deserves an oscar, the French part a piece of Ukraine delivered by Vlad Putin, the best winter stage race for me

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emmea90
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Posts: 635
Joined: 17/05/2011, 15:47
Location: Milano
Contact:

Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 29/03/2018, 0:03

Final Ranking
pr8 71
mike4296 39
Taaramae_crack 36
Dennis1107 31
Belgian4444 26
antoinvds 19
mels2309 18
Rmax85 17* (jury preference)
Pincoletto 17
Pereiroseleccion 16
lorenzo.tripodi 15
Xiky 14
Ded-Moroz 12
CaramelMou 11
Paganini 9
railxmig 9
Rdz1201 8
ciro.abete 8
tomremn 7
lorenzo.ciconte 7
Simone.galbiati 6
alexandre.philippon 4
Pierluca.ferretto 4
jibvalverde 3
xflyinghighx 3
Alfa 3
pabloagb 3
IamCeeKae 1
Sagan99 -3
Crisborto11 -6
Mauro -7
Pesallu -7
Emilio.torre -9
Bouzyboubou -10
Gamers21 -10
grimsel99 -10
matteo.zwaenepoel -10
Xander66 -10
AZ1234T -10

No penalties were awarded due to the fact we didn't have time to judge deeply old routes

New Overall
Pr8 160
Mike4296 110
Dennis1107 70
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