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2021 Season Contests
Contest #2: Milan - Rome and Bissagne - Guascogne - VOTING
Contest #3: Improved Spring Classic

Contest #3 - Voting

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Contest #3 - Voting

Post by emmea90 »

In this topic you can vote for the Tour de France 2019 Contest, according to the following rules.


How to vote

1 - You have to judge the track according to the requirements.
Time for the annual Tour de France contest.

You have to re-draw and improve 2019 Tour de France

- Gran Depart should be kept the same way (Stage 1 and 2 starts and finishing in Bruxelles, in same points. You can switch finish of stage 1 and 2 or also starts, but a finish point should remain a finish point and a start point should remain a start point)
- Of course you have to end TDF in Champs-Elysees. This means that stage 20 must end near the start of Stage 21 or (hopefully) near a city that has TGV
- You cannot repeat key parts of Tour de France 2018 real stages
- You have to put a stage start or a stage finish in at least 7 different france regions
- You can freely choose what to do before Alps or Pyrenees
- 2019 Tour is dedicated to Merckx, so you have to reference him in at least three stages after Bruxelles. The reference could be whatever you want... same final of a famous stage that wins, passage on birthplace or his house and on
- You can do at least another stage in Belgium and you cannot go out of France after the Belgium Stages
- You must have from 5 to 7 stages for pure sprinters, Paris included - and no more than 2 of them consequently
- There should be at least 2 high mountain stages that does NOT end in a MTF

Tour must be done using Tour de France - 2019 profiles, with Large X-Size and slopes on to have an easy comparison between different routes.

Everyone who will present the route also posting in the topic profiles and descriptions in this topic will start the voting phase with 3 points bonus

Good luck to all
2 - You have to write in a post your best FIVE routes, from worse to best, providing a brief motivation for each choice




How does it work?
- First choice got 6 points, second 4, third 3, fourth 2 and fifth 1 point.
- Presentation bonus grant you 3 points (we will add later with penalties who took the bonus)
- Ranking will be made according to points obtained
- In case of equality I will decide the winner
- You can also comment other people's reviews regarding your or other one's routes

Who can vote?
- Every user that submitted a contest (full points vote)
- Every user in the La Flamme Rouge Staff (Emmea90, Pigna, Sagan99, Matthorse, Nasdon33, Linkinito, Bose12)
- Every user that has registered BEFORE june 27 2019 and has at least 10 tracks in the editor. In this case, his votes counts half of the points scale

- Every user that submitted a contest and doesn't submit a valid vote (with 5 choices and motivations) will get a 10 points penalty for all his routes.
- It's FORBBIDDEN to ask for votes. Who will be caught public or privately asking for a vote to some users will get a 50 points penalty in first instance, then the exclusion from all the contests of the year
- Vote penalties for unpracticable routes will be assigned by staff during this phase

Voting will close when first rider will pass the finish line of Tour de France 2019 Stage 21.

emilio.torre: maps/tours/view/11920
mauro: maps/tours/view/11874 +3 presentation
diego12alpe: maps/tours/view/11932
yellowjersey: maps/tours/view/11875 +3 presentation
alfa: maps/tours/view/11906 +3 presentation
IamCeeKae: maps/tours/view/12014 +3 presentation
Benoit.Guillot: maps/tours/view/11942 +3 presentation
Joostvandebeek: maps/tours/view/11929 +3 presentation
pierrick.weather: maps/tours/view/12025 +3 presentation
jibvalverde: maps/tours/view/11937 +3 presentation
JADmeal: maps/tours/view/11939 +3 presentation
Comme: contests/maps/tours/view/11917
Rober_VLC: maps/tours/view/12084
luigi.russo: maps/tours/view/6294 +3 presentation
Arnorius: maps/tours/view/11901 +3 presentation
Bolieubeach: maps/tours/view/11964 +3 presentation
Tomremn: maps/tours/view/11948
jajoiejoe: maps/tours/view/12096
chiumiento: maps/tours/view/11946 +3 presentation
bocmanis82: maps/tours/view/12106 +3 presentation
coliandro: maps/tours/view/11960 +3 presentation
pastkaz: maps/tours/view/11845 +3 presentation
anderson: maps/tours/view/11928 +3 presentation
mels2309: maps/tours/view/12122 +3 presentation
Xander66: maps/tours/view/11899
MountainMaster: maps/tours/view/12125 +3 presentation

If we forgot your route, please contact me in DM
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by jajoejoe »

Deadline for voting phase is May 10th?
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by YellowJersey »

5th - Anderson
Pretty similar idea of mine in the Pyrinees with similar stage structures and climbs, with a nice finish in the Alps aswell.

4th - jibvalverde
Didn't like that the elevations weren't right (the keep elevation thingy), but the route overall is awesome specially the final mountain stage in the Grand Ballon, pretty much ideal ending for a GT.

3rd - Arnorius
Big fan of the time-trials, structure is nice with big stages all around the race and the country. Final weekend is pretty cool, specially the Barcelonette stage, I've loved the stage I made around it aswell.

2nd - PaStKaz
Saint-Girons stage is pretty cool, and besides that I liked every stage you did in the Alps, both profiles and how they're ordered, big big up in my charts.

1st - chuimiento
Clear winner for me, what stood out at first was the actual lap AROUND France which is what everyone (excluding me) didn't do if my memory is working correctly, then the Pyrineen stages are awesome, specially west Pyrinees (Tardets) which I don't know, you got a stage in the Jura very similar to mine in which I see my likings, those final 2 mountain stages are pretty cool.
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by emilio.torre »

This is my vote for Tour de France 2019's contest

5th place - XANDER66 - maps/tours/view/11899 - Good route but not enough gor time trial specialists but for team working like the official route of Tour 2019

4th place - LUIGI.RUSSO - maps/tours/view/6294 - Nice route for a Tour de France, I like his choose for a final Individual Time Trial, a Tour route if proposed in reality can be change at last stage yellow jersey like at Tour de France where Greg LeMond he beated Laurent Fignon for 8 seconds on a thrilling final

3th place - BENOIT.GUILLOT - maps/tours/view/11942 - Similar a 90s Tour de France for some arrives, a very good work of routing

2th place - ALFA - maps/tours/view/11906 - A good track with not serious mistakes, a very good work

1st place - MAURO - maps/tours/view/11874 - Nice route for the 2019 Tour de France, it's a fantastic track, very nice that
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by benoît.guillot »

Here's my vote for the contest :

5th choice : Yellow.jersey

A very good tour. It succeed to cover a large part of the France despite the difficulty. Good routing work but too many transfers.

4th choice : Joostvandenbeck

The 8th first stage could be too easy but the last will make the Touyr exploding and I like that !

3rd choice : Arnorius

The Tour is very well balanced but I didn't find enough originality for my taste...

2nd choice : Pierrick.weather

It was difficult to choose between the 2nd and the 3rd choice but the final stage arriving in Saint-Etienne was original enough to convince me !

1st choice : Bocmanis82

Nothing to say ! The route is well balanced and it visit my birthplace. The final climb at la Planche will also be great !
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by jibvalverde »

Here's my vote for the contest :

5th choice : Bocmanis82

Good ideas, correct sequences but some mistakes that prevent to be higher.

4th choice : luigi.russo

The sequences are good, the overall layout is excellent with strong points like Isola 2000 or Chalets d'Iraty. But big black spots for me, especially the time trial to finish

3rd choice : benoît.guillot

Real very very good ideas like the stage of Lautaret, that of Lake Cap de Long. But I regret the end of your Tour de France, with zero mountain in the four final stages.

2nd choice : JAdmeal

Perfect first week, the second is almost (disappointed by the layout) but the third is also very good. Doubts however on a possible arrival at the Boullisoire.

1st choice : boileubeach

The only Tour I thought was close to perfection. The Alps are more original. Nice discovery that Issarbe station. The big winner of my point of view.
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by luigi.russo »

5th - pierrick.weather

I liked the idea of having decisive stages not only in Alps or Pyrenees, but the last week is too easy, with no high mountains and no chanche for long range attacks.

4th - chumiento

I like the design of the stages, but not the distribution: there are no high mountain stages in the first 10 and there are 4 very difficult mountain stages just before the last ITT, so it's likely to see a conservative race from the GC riders.

3rd - boileubeach

Very well designed Tour, with a good variety of stages and good possibility for long range attacks. The only thing I didn't like was the absence of a very difficult top mountain finish in the Alps.

2nd - Arnorius

A very balanced Tour, with a lot of spectacular stages.
The things I didn't like was that the 13th e 14th stages, suitable for long range attacks, are just before an ITT and that after there is the rest day: the reverse order would have been much more interesting in my opinion.

1st - jibvalverde

Another very well balanced Tour, with a very good distribution of stages, especially in the ending.
I liked very much the stage in the Massif Central. The only stage i didn't like was Mourenx, because it's one of the only two Pyrenean stages and it's too easy.
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by PaStKaz »

5th - MountainMaster

Very hard race with many uphill finishes. Maybe too many and too hard, even if stages, when i look at them in spearation, are very nice designed.

4rd - Arnorious

Vety solid route. No big minuses but i didn't felt impressed. Just very solid.

3th - Tomremn

Alpine part of race looks great. Pyrenees not but i take Ballon d'Alsace and Puy de Dome as explanation of easier Pyrenees part. Also good to see no long transfers between stages.

2nd - chiumento

Last week looks epic but i'm afraid it looks too epic and it would be 2 weeks of boring waiting for this Alp stages. Nice that you visit north regions of country.

1st - luigi.rosso

I don't like ITT at the end but let say that reference to Eddy Mercx explain it. The most important is that mountain stages looks very good and balanced, it's pure first place in this contest for me.
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by JoostvandeBeek »

5th place: benoît.guillot
A solid Tour with some good stages, but nothing extremely special

4th place: Bocmanis82
Nice tour with some brutal mountain stage especially that one to Val Thorens. Only negative is that there could be too many MTF.

3rd place: jibvalverde
I really liked the first week of the tour with some stages that could create some great fireworks without already deciding the tour too early.

2nd place: chiumiento
Great Tour with nice balance between TT and mountain stages. Especially liked that the Mont Ventoux stage, taking the less classical Malaucène ascent.

1st place: luigi.russo
Clear favorite for me with some really nice moutain stages with lesser known climbs. For the rest a very balanced tour in my opinion.
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by Alfa »

5th: diego12alpe

I like a lot Metz stage, good for attacks and suspens. I think Vosges are a bit sacrified. I like your use of Pais Vaisco. I like Plateau de Beille stage. I love Moutiers stage, might be so cool IRL. I just find your stage to Super Collet too much hard.

4th: mels2309

I really like all your stages except Ans stage, finish which showed in the past years its limits. Final mountain stage promises a lot .

3rd: Arnorius

Your tour is very consistant in my opinion. First week can't be boring, as second and third weeks. That stage to St-Francois-Longchamp is my favourite, offering good slopes and hard climbs.

2nd: luigi.russo

As Arnorius, your tour is very consistant but I think there's something more in yours. Chalets d'Iraty stage is my favourite. I just dislike this stage to Toulouse that is not very hyping for the end of the tour.

1st: joostvandebeek

You found a lot of new and original climbs that I didnt see in any tour and that pleases me a lot. That Karellis climb seems to be very entertaining and I think can create a very nice battle for GC.
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by Bocmanis82 »

5th. JADmeal: maps/tours/view/11939
Nice and original route with finishes at very interesting places. Would love to see MTFs at Pointe du Dzonfié or Pas des Alpins if it is possible for TDF finish there. I also love La Mauselaine stage.

4th. IamCeeKae: maps/tours/view/12014
Very nice route with a lot of potential. I love that MTFs are followed by stages with decent. However, I wish you had one more MTF in both Alps and Pyrenees.
Kassel stage is very nice and original, it is jewelry of your Tour! Early Besancon stage is very nice too.

3rd. yellowjersey: maps/tours/view/11875
Very nice and hard tour. I love the sequence of your mountain stages. I love that you have decent amount of ITT. However, I would have swapped ITT and TTT because stage 8 might be too late for ITT. I am also not sure that you can classify Le Havre stage as medium mountain because it has only two 4th category climbs and final climb is just 2.1km - 2.3%.

2nd. Joostvandebeek: maps/tours/view/11929
Your hilly stages of first week are great and very original. It is strong point of your tour. Also your mountain stages are nicely designed and I like that you made make maximum from first and second category climbs. I learned a lot from your route.
The thing I did not like was that Mourenx stage is 24 hours before Paris (in modern cycling riders will not attack on Aubisque 100km+ before finish). Secondly, Champfromier (Les Avalanches) is in the middle of wood and I am not sure if TDF can make finish there. Nevertheless, I would love to see TDF finish there.

1st. MountainMaster: maps/tours/view/12125
I love that mountain stages are hard. Since level of competition is very tight in TDF you have to put at least 6-7 big mountain stages to test GC contenders. This route certainly has it.
I also love placing of ITTs - first one is before Alps, the second after Pyrenees. I also like that your mountain stages are decent in leght.
The thing I did not like was that transfers of Alps, Grenoble - Embrun and Valloire - Gap, were too long.
Last edited by Bocmanis82 on 28/07/2019, 21:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by IamCeeKae »

The tours are selected following a specific set of rules:
Length of the tour; no less than 3200 km, no more than 3500 km.
Set rules of the first two (2) stages; both in Brussels, one (1) normal stage (preferably including cobbled sections), and one (1) time-trial (preferably team-oriented).
Total time-trial stages; no more than three (3).
Total mountain top finishes; no more than sixty percent the total amount of high mountain stages (e.g. 6 out of 10, 4 out of 7, 2 out of 4, but not 6 out of 9).
No stage exceeding 240 kilometers.
Comments need to be made also, about the use of bonification sprints when making the stages. It’s a new concept in 2019’s Tour de France, and some have probably been caught unawares because of it. Others have made too much use of said sprints, sticking at least one of them into every single one of their normal stages, which almost makes these sprints lose their relevance over the long run. Lastly, there are also rules brought upon the contestants by emmea90 themselves, concerning requirements that every single tour has to abide by. In most cases, not all requirements are met. Thus, taking all of these things into consideration, I’ve decided what my top five in this contest will look like.

Fifth place: chuimiento
A very well rounded Tour de France that goes the other way, as in, along the Atlantic coast, instead of headed for the Vosges. Despite the utter lack of hills and mountains along the west coast of France, this contestant made good use of what they had before them. Stage five serves as an example. There’s a lack of bonification sprints, sadly, but there are some good finales to compensate for them. This Tour is original too, considering the choice of another path starting from Belgium.

Fourth place: tomrenm
This tour was fairly decent, albeit quite long, when considering the UCI rules about grand tours not being allowed longer than 3500 km; this tour falls just below it. Another point to criticize is the absolute lack of bonification sprints on top of climbs, although it’s understandable to oversee this since it’s a very new feature in the original Tour de France too. Most of the high mountain stages have some excellent finals and there’s lots of variety in the Tour overall. Who knew you could use the Mont Ventoux as anything other than a stage final?

Third place: MountainMaster
This contestant knows how to torture the cyclists in a similar fashion as the creators of the Tour de France airing on TV currently. Although the amount of high mountain stages, as well as mountain top finishes may have been a bit overdone - username checks out -, the tour is exciting even in the stages that don’t involve first or hórs categorie mountains. There are some nice stages to be found wherein the breakaway has a genuine chance of winning, whilst the peloton and its sprinters are gasping for air some ten seconds behind. Good job!

Second place: Xander66
This contest submission is on the long side, and some of the travel distances between stages (take for example, between stages three and four), are unrealistic. It also takes quite a long time for GC riders to be met with a real challenge. When they are met with said challenge however, it starts getting very exciting very quickly. Starting from stage 9, the tour makes a good turn towards more interesting. Especially the middle part of the Tour is well-plotted, as well as very innovative at some points. It’s all uphill from there.

First place: boileubeach
Excellent grand tour overall. Satisfying tour length, good distribution of climbs throughout all stages (e.g. refraining from using small climbs between tall mountain climbs.), and great placement of bonification sprints without overdoing it too much.
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by Arnorius »

Honestly, I can't vote on this one...

I know I may always seem harsh but just as IamCeeKae I have some rules of my own. The most important thing for me is that the roads and finishes must be realistic, that is also the way I make my routes. And I can't find a lot of routes that have all the things

Other things that I have seen for example are highways, too long tours, too long stages, ...

That just all made that I don't really have the motivation to check every race in detail, so I won't give anybody points as in that way I don't forget anyone.
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by mels2309 »

Arnorius wrote: 25/07/2019, 18:09 Honestly, I can't vote on this one...

I know I may always seem harsh but just as IamCeeKae I have some rules of my own. The most important thing for me is that the roads and finishes must be realistic, that is also the way I make my routes. And I can't find a lot of routes that have all the things

Other things that I have seen for example are highways, too long tours, too long stages, ...

That just all made that I don't really have the motivation to check every race in detail, so I won't give anybody points as in that way I don't forget anyone.
A lot of people are taking the time to vote and you get a lot of points from other creators. So, I think the other creators deserve your vote as well.
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by MountainMaster »

5th place: luigi.russo (1 point)
The second stage is awesome. Good mountain stages (however, the stage to Isola 2000 seems too long) and I like the 70km of ITT.

4th place: Alfa (2 points)
Good improvement of the Bruxelles stage. In the mountains I like the insertion of Puy de Dôme and Col du Granon (this one was climbed only one time in Tour history). Next time try to keep the route in the 3500km limit.

3rd place: Bocmanis82 (3 points)
I like the return of Les Deux Alpes and the stage of Hautacam. La Planche des Belles Filles in the end is a good idea. Just don't like the TTT in the 5th day.

2nd place: Arnorius (4 points)
Good job in the ITT to Panoramique des Dômes. The finish in Thiers with a climb before the last 8km is good. The stages in Alps are nice, especially the last one to Aime la Plagne.

1st place: JAdmeal (6 points)
I really like the ITT in Annecy, good distance and isn't full plain. The stage 5 to La Mauselaine is very good to puncheurs. I like the stages in Pyrenees (stage to Superbagnères really good). Stage 20 short but hard.
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by Bocmanis82 »

IamCeeKae wrote: 25/07/2019, 12:58 Total mountain top finishes; no more than sixty percent the total amount of high mountain stages (e.g. 6 out of 10, 4 out of 7, 2 out of 4, but not 6 out of 9).
Where did you get this point? The real 2019 TDF was designed with 5 MTFs out of 7 high mountain stages (71%). Are you saying that real TDF is not legal?
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by IamCeeKae »

Bocmanis82 wrote: 26/07/2019, 17:56
IamCeeKae wrote: 25/07/2019, 12:58 Total mountain top finishes; no more than sixty percent the total amount of high mountain stages (e.g. 6 out of 10, 4 out of 7, 2 out of 4, but not 6 out of 9).
Where did you get this point? The real 2019 TDF was designed with 5 MTFs out of 7 high mountain stages (71%). Are you saying that real TDF is not legal?
No, I used it as personal judgment. The specific set of rules were made by myself, as clarification for how I like the Tours best. So some rules are based on actual UCI rules, the ones emmea90 listed in the overall contests thread, another is based on the demands by emmea90 himself listed prior to the making of the contest, and lastly I've added a few rules based on my personal likings of what my ideal Tour would look like. It is a vote that includes personal tastes after all.

Although I must admit, I haven't been entirely accurate with that rule.
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by mels2309 »

5. Jajoejoe
Good build-up. Don't really like the long time trial. But overall a good Tour.

4. IamCeeKae
Well balanced, a hard but good last three mountain stages. Similar to the real Tour, but in the Pyrenees.

3. Bocmanis82
All the finish cities are very good. Not those strange small cities, but cities that could be real Tour finish cities. One thing, I recommend you to use the other road towards Les Deux Alpes.

2. JAdmeal
A good race. It's the same direction as the real Tour, but some changes of finish cities. So, a good re-draw of the 2019 Tour de France.

1. Luigi.russo
Love this Tour. The mountain stages to Chalets d'Iraty and Port de Pailheres are really good. Personally, love to see Morzine Avoriaz in a Tour.
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by JAdmeal »

5: mels2309:
You have increased the difficulty of stages progressively and that is awesome. Spectacular stages like Albertville or Courchevel with some nice dirt sections. But there isn't enough time trial for me, less than 30km, and you have all the hard stages concentrated without rests.

4: chuimiento:
Like mels2309 you have increased the diffuculty progressively but the hardest stages are in the last week. Big stages like Plateau de Beille or Chambery will provide huge battles. Also you have well-balanced time trials.

3: MountainMaster:
Great start of the Tour with some interesting puncher stages like Geraardsbergen or Epernay. And then some good stages too for example Saint Beat or Luz Ardiden. Also a well-balanced route. Despite being a remake of this TDF, which is not of my preference, I like it.

2: Bocmanis82:
Hardness is present in all weeks. Good medium mountain stages and awesome high mountain ones, for instance Val Thorens or Culoz. Good balance between mountains and time trials.

1: Arnorius:
With awesomely hard time trials and good medium and high mountain stages is the clear winner for me. Hege stages like Saint-François-Longchamp or Aime La Plagne are awesome.
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Re: Contest #3 - Voting

Post by tomrenm »

5. Arnorius
+ Well designed route all the way, with interesting stages in the first week, and tough mountain stages later. Hard, but not too hard.
- The first ITT could make to big gaps and decide the yellow jersey for the next week.

4. Bocmanis82
+ A lot of good stages all the tour, with different kind of terrain and short travels.
- Some of the mountain stages are too long, like the last one. Would also been better with finish at Puy de Dome (?)

3. Alfa
+ Nice parcourse with action from start to finish, where the yellow jersey could switch several times. Some nice finishes, like Puy de Dôme.
- Some long stages, and total distance above 3500 km.

2. mels2309
+ Challenging first week with mixed stages, where different kind of riders can win.
- Too hard last week of the Tour. Long stages with many high climbs.

1. PaStKaz
+ First week designed for spectacular racing with sprints, short hills and possibly cross wind. Well balanced by TT and mountains, and not too hard route.
- Should have been one sprinters stage between Pyrenees and Alps. Last mountain stage maybe to easy if big gaps before that stages.
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