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2020 Season Contests
Contest #4 - VOTING: Link

Contest #5 - Voting

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Contest #5 - Voting

Post by emmea90 »

In this topic you can vote for the Tour de Pologne improved


How to vote

1 - You have to judge the track according to the requirements.
Tour de Pologne is a nice race. One week kermesse up and down (more down) in Poland along circuit finishes. Except for the fact that is almost boring to watch and you always have first 10 in few second and it's like watching Tour Down Under in August.

Fortunately, Poland has different climbs that can be used to improve the route - some of them are in use in the other Polish races, like Tour of Malopolska, that you can find in our race calendar on the forum

What we ask you is to draw a different Tour of Poland, transforming it in a race more like a Paris-Nice. In particular there are the

- There must be an ITT
- No more than 2 sprinters stage
- Penultimate stage should feature a Mountain Top Finish
- Last stage should be a short stage with up/downs like Col d'Eze stage in Nice
- You can't go out of Poland for the race.
- Circuits are not allowed. You are allowed to pass only once on the finish line
2 - You have to write in a post your best FIVE routes, from worse to best, providing a brief motivation for each choice




How does it work?
- First choice got 6 points, second 4, third 3, fourth 2 and fifth 1 point.
- Presentation bonus grant you 3 points (we will add later with penalties who took the bonus)
- Ranking will be made according to points obtained
- In case of equality I will decide the winner
- You can also comment other people's reviews regarding your or other one's routes

Who can vote?
- Every user that submitted a contest (full points vote)
- Every user in the La Flamme Rouge Staff (Emmea90, Pigna, Sagan99, Matthorse, Nasdon33, Linkinito, Bose12)
- Every user that has registered BEFORE september 9 2019 and has at least 10 tracks in the editor. In this case, his votes counts half of the points scale

- Every user that submitted a contest and doesn't submit a valid vote (with 5 choices and motivations) will get a 10 points penalty for all his routes.
- It's FORBBIDDEN to ask for votes. Who will be caught public or privately asking for a vote to some users will get a 50 points penalty in first instance, then the exclusion from all the contests of the year
- Vote penalties for unpracticable routes will be assigned by staff during this phase

Voting will close friday september 20 on 23,59.

Mauro: maps/tours/view/12582 +3pres
Jajoejoe: maps/tours/view/12593 +3pres
Michal1238: maps/tours/view/12666 +3pres
Chiumiento: maps/tours/view/12581 +3pres
Sportdani19: maps/tours/view/12677
Carlo33: maps/tours/view/12588 +3pres
Kanon16: maps/tours/view/12732 +3pres
Jibvalverde: maps/tours/view/12702
Xander66: maps/tours/view/12656 +3pres
Improb: maps/tours/view/12763 +3pres
Pastkaz: maps/tours/view/12612 +3pres
AjachiChakrabarti: maps/tours/view/12773 +3pres

If we forgot your route, please contact me in DM
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Re: Contest #5 - Voting

Post by chuimiento »

This is my voting for the Tour of Poland contest. I'd like to congrat all participants as they have made some really interesting routes, and specially my three top places, which I see as three equally good routes, making it for me difficult to give an order for them. Finally, I have rated better the routes with more balance sprint stages - ITT - mountain stages as I think it makes the difference in tracking stage races.



General route: variety of regions and distribution of stages seems good.
Stages: Stage 2 is beautiful and precisely what expected in its moment of the race. Though, stage 3 is maybe too hard -though it's beautiful also-. Stage 6 is maybe too easy and stage 7 is perfect. You made a tour with some great stages and some other stages which are very not fortunate.

FOURTH PLACE - Jibivalverde


General route: it lacks more regions of Poland.
Stages: stage 2 is too hard too early. The TT is well designed as you make it shorter due to having climbs in it. I love stage 5, as well as stage 7, but they look like each other. You don't make mistakes in any of your stages individually, but you don't also risk anything making one original and different stage (excluding maybe the TT).

THIRD PLACE - Xander66


General route: I find the geographical frame and the distribution of stages perfectly designed.
Stages: the flat stages are just as expected and I think the stage 2 is just the perfect way to insert some difficulties in the first half of this kind of tour. The TT is maybe too short, maybe 5 km more would make it perfect. Stages 6 and 7 might be harder. I think your route is perfectly balanced but lacks some hardness, maybe inserting harder climbs in the last stages and adding some kilometres to your ITT.



General route: I like the overall shape, starting in the North and going southwards organically. Also the distribution of the stages is pretty well designed, starting from the sprint stages and gradually increasing difficulty, with the time trial in the last part but letting some stages after it.
Stages: The two sprint stages are okey, and I find very original and witty the second stage with this late smooth ascents and the cobble sector. The fourth stage is really interesting, forcing early movements, although the climbs are maybe too smooth. The time trial is good, really well designed. I think it maybe creates too big gaps because of the hilly profile -maybe 5 km shorter would be better for this kind of tour-. Of the last two stages, I like the second one the most, being the first also good but lacking some climbs in the middle section.



General route: both geographically and the distribution of stages seem perfect for me.
Stages: The sprint stages feature some "traps" in the last kilometres which I don't really agree - with Poland geography, two complete plain stages should be assured-. I love stage 3 design but maybe it's too hard too early in the race. I find the TT just perfect. The last three stages are perfect, specially the two last ones, I think they are exactly what is expected in this kind of race. Also, I find the last stage really original.

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Re: Contest #5 - Voting

Post by PaStKaz »

This is my judgments. In general I want to say that i don't think that Tour de Pologne will be allowed to get to Morskie Oko but it's just my local impression. But i don't count it as minus of your routes. Also Przehyba is quite impossible place but it was used in Tour of Malopolska so i understand that you use it and didn't check that there was just orange line on asphalt in the middle of forest ( ... d/36698933). Third mountain which some of you use is Karkonoska Pass which have more than a lot place to organize ceremonies but uphill goes by old terrible absolutely unpracticable road through the national park and won't be repaired in any visible future. And on the other hand, this is so hard uphill that finish there would kill the race - results there will be results of whole tour probably.

On the another hand i'm very glad that i saw your ideas for tour in my country.

5th place: Jajoejoe

I feel a little uncomfortable with your balance - there is quite long TT and mountain part consist stages to Bystrzyca Klodzka, where i expect some quite big group on the finish line, to Szczyrk where only last 20 kilomeetrs are competitive and last to Morskie Oko which looks better but last climb have max 8% slope. You can make more interesting tricky finish in Luban area than in Krosno but i understand that it was nice to make flat-tricky-flat combination. To not only complain - nice that you use both Sudety and Karpathian mountains and make no big transfers.

4th place: Xander66

Big plus to you for use Swiety Krzyz. Also length of TT suits me very well but decisive stages could be harder. Stage 5 which you called queen stage didn't impressed me, i expect up and dwon all day or mountain finish to call it this way. On stage to Sienna i will prefer to go straight south from Zloty Stok to get Jaworowa Pass before last climb. On last day you could finish much upper in Karpacz.

3rd place: Kanon16

It's hard to make good geographical design and make very interested race in 7 days in Poland. But transfers are a little too big for me anyway. I'm very impressed that you find Lenno Castle-Wietrznik-Maciejowiec combination and in general stage 3 looks very good. But there could be one more mountain between Michalowice (Which you name Szkolne Schronisko which means school youth hostel :). Which is in Michalowice so i understend that you find this inscription on map somewhere there.) and Karpacz Górny. Last 3 stage also i think are good designed but last stage is against contest rules i think.

2nd palce: Chiumiento

Great that you use hills in Gdansk area, in my opinion it's the best place in northern half of Poland to make some interesting stage. Long transfer next day looks bad but let's say it acceptable. I prefer a little shorter ITT but it's still good. In mountains you very nice compose well known hills and add some nice bonuses, last 3 days looks very good but Podmagura is a little contrversial.

1st place: Improb

Cobble parts on second stage are very nice finding. I feel a little uncomfratble with this - cobbles was never decidive part of TdP but i didn't count this choose as minus. I understand that you look for something interesting somewhere in the middle of Poland. You make great stage with finish in Swieradów-Zdrój and very interesting last section before finish in front of Niedzwiedza Cave. Uphill ITT is good for me. On last two days you use hills well known from prevoius edition and just composed them good - nothing to complain about it. Maybe a little - Kuznice which you choose to finish last stage is acceptable place to end the stage but it's end of whole tour - it will be nice to make it in some place with more place to organize ceremonies and whole logistic.

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Re: Contest #5 - Voting

Post by jibvalverde »

I first took into account the application of instructions, which has already eliminated from my vote all those whose last stage is not mid-mountain (no hilly stage), or those who have an arrival in high mountain (the Promenades des Anglais is not a pass ^^)

FIFTH PLACE : AjachiChakrabarti

If I had only based my vote on mountain stages, you would probably be first. Unfortunately, the improbable lengths of your timetrial deprive you of this chance. 52km TT and 43km ITT? It's way too much.

FOURTH PLACE : sportdani19

I really like your first mountain stage and your timetrial too but, I'm not at all a fan of your last two stages. The arrival of the 6th is too « flat » for my taste and it will be impossible to reverse the race on the 7th, which is not the middle mountain.

THIRD PLACE : chuimiento

Too bad that your big arrival at the top is two days before the arrival and not the day before, even if your 6th stage is very beautiful too. But your last step has the advantage of being worthy of what proposes Paris-Nice so well done.


Originality on the first part with cobbles, it's good. Mountain stages are beautiful individually but you don’t really arrive at the top once, as it was requested.


The best road. A balanced course, with, yes, two finishes at the top but both are not too difficult and also a good timetrial, not too long, not too short. And you have one of the best last stage, a real middle mountain stage, like Nice.

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Re: Contest #5 - Voting

Post by improb »

Fifth Place: Carlo33

Pros: Covers a good chunk of Poland, having stage finishes in three of the largest cities plus the start in the capital. I really like the two mountain finishes. Good amount of TTing. The Krakow stage is original and different from al the other ones but it's too easy. Finishing the race and the stage in Myslenice or Wieliczka would have been great.

Cons: I didn't like the Rybnik stage though, it's just a sprinters stage. It's just too much to overcome for me. A normal medium mountain stage could have put you in first.

Fourth Place: kanon16:

Pros: The Jelenia Gora stage is really really well done and the same goes for the queen stage to Morske Oko. Good amount of TTing.

Cons: I don't like Gora Zar and Morske Oko back to back (both uphill finishes). I am not convinced by the last stage either. I think the Zoo climb is good in a circuit but I don't like it as a standalone because it's just not connected to other hills and on its own (if not used as a finish), it doesn't create gaps.

Third Place Place: JaJoeJoe

Pros: Good amount of TTing. Stage 2. Stage 4.

Cons: Morske Oko as last stage breaks rules. The placement of the last two stages with the easiest one coming before the harder one.


Pros: Damn good stage to Nowy Targ (my favourite one) and nice one to Bielsko Biala as well. Morske Oko stage is as good as a mountain stage in the TdP can get.

Cons: Last stage should be easier, following the rules. TTs kms aren't enough with the hilly parcours you've chosen. Przehyba is borderline, I don't think the finish is large enough for the race to end there.

First Place: PastKaz

Pros: Original placement and use of the Zoo climb in Krakow. Good use of the two mountain finishes, which complement each other. Good amount of TTing. Last stage fucking rocks.

Cons: Przelecz Okraj doesn't convince me. I have the feeling something is missing but despite that, I think this is the best race out there.

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Re: Contest #5 - Voting

Post by kanon16 »

This is my voting.
Surely is not easy to do a good Poland Tour and make it similar to a Paris-Nice..all traces seem to have small or big defects and my Race is no an exception of course!

FIFTH: Improb
I like very much that you use the cobbles in the stage 2, but in this case the stage 1 could have been for sprinters, without the traps you put in the final.
Stage 3 is very long and hard and it's good, but I find the last downhill very risky for a cycling race.
I also don't like very much a 8 Kilometers climb in a ITT in such a short race as Poland Tour.
Stage 5 is nice but at the point of arrival there is nothing!...I don't think is a good point for a finish line.
I really like stage 6 and 7!

FOURTH PLACE: Jibvalverde
There are good and bad things in your race.
Stage 2 and 5 are really perfect as medium mountain stage, also the ITT is ok. I don't like the general drawing of the Tour (a little intricated and concentrated in a small portion of Poland).
There are too few details in the flat stages (missing names of the cities and places).
Stage 6 is really interesting but maybe the final climb is too hard for a one week tour and surely the road to Karkonoska Pass is in very bad conditions. I like the last stage.

Very nice general drawing, I like in particular the stage 2 with the arrival to the Monastery.
The ITT in Krakow is perfect, Wisla is a very good middle mountain stage (not high mountain I think).
The Sienna stage maybe is too easy to create a good selection along the last climb. Also the last stage is too could have work with a real high mountain stage before..

SECOND PLACE: Chuimiento
Very nice general drawing; the second stage is very interesting with these short cotes!
Gora Zar stage is nice although I don't believe that a race can reach the end of the road on the dam.
The last 3 stages are nice but there is something that does not convince me at all...maybe they are too similar to each other (a lot of climbs along all the race). In any case very good Poland Tour!

We see that you know Poland very well! I like in particular the Krakow stage with the arrival to the Zoo, the classic Rownica mountain-stage and the ITT.
I don’t like the Okraj stage, which should be the queen stage of your Tour…the first half stage is perfect but in my opinion the 60 Kilometers before the last climb are too easy and also the last climb has no the slope to do selection.
The last stage is perfect!

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Re: Contest #5 - Voting

Post by kubu »

First of all I'm very disapointed to miss this contest. I have started a thread about TdP some tome ago and created few routes of this tour.
I am slightly past the voting deadline but I hope my votes would still count.

5th place: AjachiChakrabarti
Purely to appreciate the search for new routes, although I don't believe it is possible to go on a road bike on Sniezka (the cobblestones are very rough, not as smooth as on Gottard's pass) and the route through Leskowiec (last stage) is surely not possible.

4th place: Xander66
Great that you have visited so many parts of Poland in your tour. Pity the stages are not a bit harder.

3rd place: kanon16
Great tour, but... I don't believe that Tatra National Park will ever allow to finish the stage in Morskie Oko, and frankly I fully understand them.

2nd place: chuimiento
Many things I like in this tour. It goes from Poznan - my hometown, and through Warsaw - my current city, which i try to make more cyclist-friendly (and pedestrian-friendly, and citizen-friendly; it should be called Carsaw it's so car orientated).
I like the finishes in Gora Zar and Szczyrk-Podmagura. I do believe that there is enough space to finish a stage there (I have created stages with a finish there). Generally the queen stage is great with the concentration of the most demanding climbs at the end of the stage.

1st place: inprob
I love the final 50km of most of your stages (but the one in Szczyrk should go higher to Podmagura ;) ) I would only like to see the first 50km cut as I prefer mountain stages a bit shorter (Glogow instead of Zielona Gora, Walbrzych instead of Kowary, Pszczyna instead of Raciborz). Cobbles are also nice. In general that is a great tour!

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Re: Contest #5 - Voting

Post by michal1238 »

5th place sportdani19
I really like 3th stage, it's in my opinion the best possible solution after two days for sprinters. It's not hard, but not easy with finish on Rownica. Stege no.6 is also nice. Using Krowiarki gives opportunity to create something interesting in Podhale and you've made it. It would be fantastic, to see something in TdP.

4th place jibvalverde
Unfortunaletely for now it's not possible to finish stage on Karkonoska, but in the future I do hope it will happen. But if you decided to do finish there, you could creating something more demanding. Many kms before the last climb are too easy. Your track would be ranked higher, if you had gone to visit other parts of Poland, not only 2 voivedoships.

3rd place PaStKaz
If 3rd stage is harder than queen stage, there is something wrong. 6th stage is too easy. Before Okraj there should be some climbs f.e. Droga Sudecka and Karpacz from 7th stage. With these two hills before last climbs it would be very demanding and intersting to watch. It's fine you' ve used Beskidy and Sudety.

2nd place improb
I appreciate your version of TdP a lot, but in my opinion there is one better than yours. It's everything fine, but last kms of 3rd stage are too dangerous.

1st place kanon16
Your track is perfectly balanced. Ways of using Zar and Morskie Oko are brillant and I wish to see it in TdP.

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Re: Contest #5 - Voting

Post by sportdani19 »

[size=150]5th place: mauro
PROs: the first two stages dedicated to the Pope are beautiful and the last stage is excellent.

4th place:carlo 33
PROs: short transfers,the 6 stage and the ITT are really good.
AGAINST: the last stage break the rules.

3rd place:chiumento
PROs: the ITT is just Perfect, the 6 stage i like it; the last stage is pretty good.
AGAINST: The 5 Stage isn't a Medium Mountain;it is a High Mountain Stage.

2nd place:jibvalverde
PROs: the stage of Spindleruv Mlyn is the the best Mountain stage in Contest .
AGAINST: the stages are really close to each other.

1st place improb
PROs:i really appreciate the Mountain Stages,they are Really similar to a Paris-nice Type-stage.
The ITT Distance are just Perfect for this Tour.
The last Stage idea with the hill-Arrive is Perfect.
AGAINST: some transfers are pretty long.[/size]

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Re: Contest #5 - Voting

Post by AjachiChakrabarti »

FIFTH PLACE: jajoejoe
Really efficient route design, but the mountain stages are a little too easy.

Great mountain stages, and Stage 2 is really good. I wish you had used more of Poland, but I can understand the limitations caused by Poland's geography.

THIRD PLACE: kanon16
Similar feedback to PastKaz's route, but the mountain stages were slightly better, which is why I have you in third.

SECOND PLACE: Chiumiento
The transfers are a little too long, but this is a great route. The stages near the end, in particular, are really good.

I love the geographical spread of the race. The flat stages are interesting, with a judicious use of cobbles and climbs. I found the mountain stages a little too unchallenging, but you've made them long enough to compensate.

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Re: Contest #5 - Voting

Post by jajoejoe »

Completely forgot about this. Sorry if it’s 45 minutes too late. I hope it doesn’t matter that much.

5th place: Tifoso
I really like that you gave your Tour de Pologne some kind of theme, not a big fan of the transfer between last 2 stages though

4th place: Carlo33
A really well balanced Tour de Pologne. Although I don’t think starting from the place Bjorg had his accident is a good idea, it doesn’t feel right.

3rd place: Pastkaz
Probs for placing your start and finish of your ITT next to a massive parking lot, makes this logistically the best designed stage of all of them. Your last stage has a great distance to make the racing great, but it lacks hard succesive climbs.

2nd place: Chuimiento
Balanced and great tour also for you, but the transfers are bothering me.

1st place: Improb
You made the most of the country of Poland making your tour stretch almost the entire length from north to south whilst maintaing a great great route. Congrats!

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Re: Contest #5 - Voting

Post by emmea90 »

Improb 39
Pastkaz 30
Chiumiento 27
Kanon16 24,5
Jajoejoe 12
Jibvalverde 10
Michal1238 7
AjachiChakrabarti 4,5
Sportdani19 3
Xander66 2
Carlo33 -2
Mauro -5

Contest points
Improb 50
Pastkaz 35
Chiumiento 25
Kanon16 15
Jajoejoe 10
Jibvalverde 5
Michal1238 2
AjachiChakrabarti 1

General Classification
bocmanis82 110
luigi.russo 100
Chiumiento 85
Arnorius 76
PaStKaz 75
Joostvandebeek 70
JADmeal 60
Improb 50
alfa 40
jibvalverde 35
Kanon16 30
Xander66 30
mels2309 20
Ikhoudvanfrikandellen 16
Bolieubeach 15
Jajoejoe 15
Benoit.Guillot 10
Carlo33 10
tomrenm 10
MountainMaster 5
IamCeeKae 2
Michal1238 2
AjachiChakrabarti 1
yellowjersey 1
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