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2021 Season Contests
Contest #3: Improved Spring Classic
Contest #4: Giro d'Italia

Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

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Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by emmea90 »

Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - VOTING

In this topic you can vote for the Giro d'Italia, according to the following rules.


How to vote

1 - You have to judge the track according to the requirements: contests/contest-giro-italia-t7349.html

2 - You have to write in a post your best FIVE routes, from worse to best, providing a brief motivation for each choice




How does it work?
- First choice got 6 points, second 4, third 3, fourth 2 and fifth 1 point.
- Presentation bonus grant you 3 points (we will add later with penalties who took the bonus)
- Ranking will be made according to points obtained
- In case of equality I will decide the winner
- You can also comment other people's reviews regarding your or other one's routes

Who can vote?
- Every user that submitted a contest (full points vote)
- Every user in the La Flamme Rouge Staff (Emmea90, Pigna, Sagan99, Matthorse, Nasdon33, Linkinito, Bose12)
- Every user that has registered BEFORE today and has at least 10 tracks in the editor. In this case, his votes counts half of the points scale

- Every user that submitted a contest and doesn't submit a valid vote (with 5 choices and motivations) will get a 10 points penalty for all his routes.
- It's FORBBIDDEN to ask for votes. Who will be caught public or privately asking for a vote to some users will get a 50 points penalty in first instance, then the exclusion from all the contests of the year
- Vote penalties for unpracticable routes will be assigned by staff during this phase

Requisites for the +3 bonus
- Providing link of the tour in the post
- Providing viewable image of each stage with a description in the post

Deadline for vote phase is july 26, h 23.59

Davandluz: maps/tours/view/15219 +3 presentation
Mauro: post31433.html#p31433 +3 presentation
Luigi.russo: post31451.html#p31451 +3 presentation
Ellvey: maps/tours/view/15263 +3 presentation
Kanon16: maps/tours/view/15225 +3 presentation
Emilio.torre: maps/tours/view/15299
Jajoejoe: maps/tours/view/15237 +3 presentation
AjachiChakrabarti: maps/tours/view/15238 +3 presentation
Yellowjersey: maps/tours/view/15235 +3 presentation
Giorgio.ponticelli: maps/tours/view/9358 +3 presentation
Jibvalverde: maps/tours/view/15308 +3 presentation
Smokingpuppy841: maps/tours/view/15458
Xander66: maps/tours/view/15279 +3 presentation
Robinson59: maps/tours/view/15474
Diego12Alpe: maps/tours/view/15221 +3 presentation
Brumdog66: maps/tours/view/15268
Pincoletto: maps/tours/view/15453 +3 presentation
CelentanoTour: maps/tours/view/15302 +3 presentation
PaoloAgb: maps/tours/view/15241
Arnorius: maps/tours/view/15220 +3 presentation
IamCeeKae: maps/tours/view/15256 +3 presentation
Taaramae_crak: maps/tours/view/15493 +3 presentation
Jadmeal: maps/tours/view/15473 (images not viewable)
Improb: maps/tours/view/15283
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by emilio.torre »

This is my vote for Giro d'Italia contest

5th place - Ellvey - /tours/view/15263 - Not bad work, some acceptable mistakes, i like some the stage from Poggio a Caiano to Modena, a very hard stage on the central Apennines.

4th place - giorgio.ponticelli - /tours/view/15257 - good job, i like his location choosing, Monte Vesuvio and Ega's stage are very tough and awesome.

3rd place - Mauro - /tours/view/15232 - Very good work, but makes unique mistake to build a 46km final time trial when the best idea is making a short time trial around Milan.

2nd place - luigi.russo - /tours/view/15257 - A very tough ride, i like it some Amalfi coast stage and Monte Gelbison stage, nice work

1st place - jadmeal - /tours/view/15473 - One of examples of perfect routing building, if Mauro Vegni see it that, He gonna pay them, very nice work
Last edited by emilio.torre on 06/07/2020, 8:16, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by davandluz »

PaoloAgb, it seems that your route is not viewable. Is it still private by any chance?
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by pabloagb »

davandluz wrote: 05/07/2020, 16:52 PaoloAgb, it seems that your route is not viewable. Is it still private by any chance?
Thanks. It was private. I have made it public now so you can all see it.
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by luigi.russo »

All the route in my top 5 are very good, even if any one has some little flawes to me. So among this five, I preferred the routes in wich the UNESCO site aren't simply present but are meaningful in the design of the stage, for examples are in a key point or near the finish line, so they can really be showed and promoted in TV, because I think it's the real focus of the contest.

1st place: pincoletto
Very well designed stage and well positioned, with very nice triptiques in each weekend. I really like Amiata stage and the presence of both famous and underused climbs. I absolutely don't like Gavia in last week in October, but it was admitted in the contest so it's OK.

2nd place: jajoejoe
Even this Giro is very well designed with an original use of Etna and a great stage in Urbino. First and second weeks are perfect but I think the route needed a tappone in stage 18 or 20 to make third week harder and whole Giro more balanced.

3rd place: mauro
Well designed stage, with three great couplets of high mountain stages in the end. Some little things i don't like are three consecutive sprint stage, the ending of Strade Bianche stage unoriginal and the starting location, which should be a great turistic attraction and an UNESCO site in such a Giro. Even if the route is balanced, the final ITT it's way too long.

4th place: CelentanoTour
Great presentation, easily the best. The stage are very well positioned and even well designed, but I don't like that every high mountain stage has a difficult top finish. In the second half of route only a few UNESCO sites are relevant too.
Some other very little things I dont'like are the unoriginal Strade Bianche ending and the first half of Tre Cime stage, but I reported them only because your great effort in presentation deserve it!

5th place: Xander66
I liked first week and Appenninic stages, but i think that another great mountain stage it's needed becaus right now stage 20 is way too more decisive than others. After Vicenza stage, the UNESCO site aren't very relevant too.

Best of the rest:
taaramae_crack: very good route (with a switch between Positano stage and ITT maybe perfect), but UNESCO sites aren't meaningful in stage design and Gavia is a too high for October.
JADmeal: almost perfect route and good positioning of UNESCO sites until stage 17, but four extreme tappone are way too much and each one uses extremely famous climbs, not a Giro way. Gavia and even more Stelvio are too high for October.
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by YellowJersey »

5th place - xander66
I like the structure of the race, despite that Asiago stage being the combo used by the Giro but compensated by the Livigno stage I loved.

4th place - davandluz
Val di Luce and the queen Mortirolo stages are quite cool, and I've got to find some new places in the Alps I didn't know.

3th place - CelentanoTour
Clearly amazing attention to detail here can't ignore that detail, there isn't a specific point I could mention in the route that I loved but it's so balanced, no mountain stages I didn't like, finish in Col di Tenda is pretty cool that I hadn't considered.

2nd place - IamCeeKae
Fénis stage is nice, the Mortirolo one kinda blew me, risky yet I deem a really successful design with some balls, then getting the Zoncolan/Grappa duo and finishing with a stage that's great for raiding is a great finish.

1st place - jajoejoe
The stages in the Amalfi Coast, San Valentino alla Muta are really cool, I had considered making a stage finish in Sormano but decided not to but I admit it looks pretty cool this way, and having those final two stages in finishes I didn't know but looking really good, just fits, really good route!
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by davandluz »

My perspective on this contest was that the difficulty should've been appropriate with the position of the Giro in the calendar and the pitfalls that the October weather holds. In my opinion, the hardest Giro is not the best Giro, in this contest. Also, many entries overlooked sprinters: given this year's particular calendar, in my opinion it was crucial to give them more chance than the Vuelta, otherwise all of the best ones will opt for the Spanish GT.

5th place taaramae_crack I like your route, it's nicely balanced and should provide entertainment from start to end, but there are some things I don't really dig. The Etna stage is too difficult for the first week, and a high mountain stage solely focused on final, long and hard KOM would've fit well in your Giro. I really don't like the Ischia ITT, because of both the profile and the unconvenience of organzing it on a small island. I am not a fan of the Livigno arrivals taken from Bormio, the Foscagno is long but not really hard: not the ideal October stage ending (and btw, from Livigno to Riva del Garda is a pretty long bus drive). Lastly, your Dolomites stage is just too much: the last week in general is too hard, considering the premises especially, and this stage really overkills it in my opinion.

4th place ellvey I really like the first week, probably my favorite, especially the Salandra stage. Second week is also nice (maybe too many kilometeres on strade bianche in the Siena stage). But two consecutive flat stages in the 18th and 19th stage, with the 20th stage not being the hardest, too, are an anticlimax. Pity.

3rd place giorgio.ponticelli Even though your Giro follows an unconventional, vintage structure, I think that it works very well... for the first two weeks. It's a pity, because the last week does not match my expectations: only two high mountain stages do not convince me (the Sant'Anna di Vinadio stage is quite dull for being the last chance for grimpeurs), and the Pieve di Teco stage descents seem quite narrow and dangerous.

2nd place kanon16 Maybe a bit too hard, but really well-designed Giro. Probably the best last week of them all. Really nice Bergamo stage, too. However, I think that sprinters are overlooked: with a - properly - flat stage instead of one of the medium mountain stages I think would've put your route as my first pick.

1st place robinson59 Really nice Giro overall, well balanced, with some interesting stages right from the beginning. Good job. There are some imprecisions in the stage designs, and I think you should have been more careful in placing some stage starts closer to the previous stage ending (take the Sicily route, going Eastwards and then back West, and the last stage, I would have chosen a starting location closer to Ponte di Legno). Also, you should've marked the UNESCO heritage sites with IS or a KOM when located along the route.
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by kanon16 »

My voting, very difficult cause the high number of good races!

FIFTH PLACE Celentano Tour
Nice Giro, very very accurate and without doubts the best presentation I've ever seen here!!
Many beautifull stages... like Siena, Colle di Tenda with Fauniera, Pila and Agordo.
Personally I think 97 Km of TT (ITT and TTT) are too much in 2020 and maybe you should have looked for more variety in the Mountain Top Finishes.
I don't like so much also the downhill of Passo Fedaia towards Malga Ciapela..why not use the Pordoi at that point?

Very nice path! The Maratea, the 8 and 9 stages are really super! (Monte Prata is a fantastic end for the first week)
In the second week I don't like so much 3 stages in a row for sprinters (11,12 and 13), but the 14 and 15 are very well tracked!
Maybe the last week is too hard, with 5 decisive stages for the GC men including the last long ITT!

THIRD PLACE Jibvalverde
Really a very nice Giro! Very close to the Mauro's Giro in my preferences but with something more.
Maybe the best first week in the contest. The San Remo stage with the new hard Cipressa is a fantastic idea!
I like very much also the Etna stage, the Terminillo one and the Borgo San Dalmazzo stage.
Very interesting also the last week with 4 variegated (and not too hard) mountain stages in a row!
I don't like the stage N.1 (a bit confused), the Lys stage (the ascent from Acquarossa is impracticable I think) and the downhill from Monte Grappa to Semonzo...maybe too risky.

I was uncertain until the end about the first two positions because are both beautifull Tours.
Very little to say about your job: well balanced Giro with a first week not too simple not too hard (Prato di Campoli really nice), a second week in "crescendo" (Cividale, Tre Cime and Corvara are a superb weekend, only I would have put the finish line in Corvara and not in Colfosco) and a third week with a beautiful final (Santa Caterina and Maniva Pass are super!)

Like Pincoletto a beautiful Giro, balanced, accurate, with a extremely clear presentation.
Many fantastic ideas, like the Bologna stage, Pienza (maybe a little mistake on the position of the arrival but I think was accidental) and mostly the Ponte di Legno stage with the letal couple of Passo San Marco and Mortirolo.
The Dolomitic stage is also intriguing with only some doubts about the "falsopiano" before Tre Croci..but Grappa, Duran and Cibiana are surely a perfect mix for a great show!
Last edited by kanon16 on 26/07/2020, 21:08, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by Pincoletto »

5° Davandluz
First week is very nice, in Val di Luce stage i would've entered the climb of San Pellegrino in Alpe, excellent the final stage.

4° Kanon16
First stages are very interesting, the San Gimignano time trial is absolutely the best in contest, a balanced second and third weekend; overall well done.

3° CelentanoTour
Sicilian stages are well designed, high mountain is very beautiful and balanced, one more point for the excellent presentation.

2° Mauro
Very interesting route with a lot of new stage cities, the dolomitic stage is wonderful, a little less the one with Fauniera and Sampeyre (too far from the finish line).

1° Jadmeal
Sicilian stages are very beautiful, incredible the succession from Valdobbiadene to Bormio (the high mountain stage of Bormio is the most beautiful in contest); absolutely the best in contest.
Uno dei pochi sport in cui Berlusconi non abbia investito una lira è il ciclismo, dunque qualcosa di buono deve averlo
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by SmokingPuppy841 »

5 - Pincoletto

I really like this route, I'm just not a huge fan of time trials to start a race personally, and that was one of my 'tiebreaker' factors between the routes I really enjoyed.

4 - luigi.russo

Very similar reasoning as #5, I would've just liked to have seen a mass start.

3 - jibvalverde

I love this route, but I would've liked to have seen a MTF inthe 2nd week.

2 - Yellow Jersey

I really enjoyed this route, but #1 just edged it for me.

1 - taaramae_crack

My favourite route of the competition, I'd love to see RCS take notes.
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by IamCeeKae »

FIFTH PLACE: Pincoletto
A great tour with a nice variety of stages, although the balance could've been a little better, with more high mountain stages in the middle of the Giro, and perhaps a couple less in the final week. Definitely some nice climbs used in the high mountain stages though.

An exciting grand tour that shows a lot of variety. Each terrain appears to come forward at least once in the tour, whether it is a flat or a hilly ITT, a Strade Bianche style stage, or just a mountainous stage with an incredibly long last climb to finish it off. Still though, be wary of any repetitiveness that occurs. The stage from Cosenza to Salandra is a great one on its own - very long, with an exciting hilly finish - but in stage nine, practically the same is done once again. All in all though, this would be a very exciting race to watch, and one that fits all cyclists of all terrains, it would seem.

THIRD PLACE: taaramae_crack
Great tour with a nice variety of stages, although just like with Pincoletto, it could've been more balanced had they been more spread out over the entire grand tour. That said, deciding against a prologue worked in favor of the race balance altogether, leaving an extra option for another exciting stage in its wake. The mountain stages are very well executed, with the final fifty kilomters almost always consisting of several high category climbs, without necessarily having to finish on top of a climb.

Although at first sight the amount of mountain top finishes appears lacking, compared to the amount of medium and high mountain stages present in this grand tour, there's actually a good amount of stages that make up for it by finishing on a flat, or with barely a descent to follow up on the last climb. It looks really nice on the profiles in the presentation, see for example stage 15 from Vicenza to Asiago. Although the length of the time trials combined could've been a little less, this version of the october Giro looks really well-balanced, with everything the cyclists may come across.

FIRST PLACE: giorgio.ponticelli
This grand tour just shows that you don't necessarily need high mountain climbs to still make it exciting. The lay-out is one of the better ones I've seen, with a good variety in stages in each week the race is driven. Going south to north, and then to west by crossing the Po-flat makes for a good balance between flat and mountainous stages, even in the last week of this version's Giro. The time-trials are not too long altogether maxing out at just over 55 kilometers spread out over three stages. All in all a very exciting race to watch.
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by ellvey »

Hellooo! I'd like to congratulate everyone for their effort in making these Giros, it was really difficult to choose five of them.

5th Place - CelentanoTour

I really like the first 2 weeks, one of my favourites, with nicely designed medium mountain stages, such as Foligno and Siena. I also love the inclusion of Colle di Tenda. However i'm not particularly a fan of a ITT that long, i think riders such as Dumoulin and Roglic would be able to put too much time into the climbers. But to me the big con to your Giro is the last week. Well, i understand your reluctance in including Passo di Gavia on stage 16, but it would fit the stage so much better. In stage 17, i'd love to see a sequence of Bondone and Passo Coe (or just at Folgaria, as a finish), and dropping Campo Carlo Magno, as i feel that there's too many kms between the previous climb and the foot of Bondone. Also with Stage 20 being so hard, Stage 19 should be sofpedalled, much like San Martino di Castrozza in last year's Giro. Your Giro has a lot of potential, with only a few changes made (In my humble opinion).

4th Place - improb

Your Giro has a lot of great ideas, that always seem to align with my own ideas on how a GT should be xD. Good structure and balance, and great mountain stages, particularly the Valdobbiadene one, brilliant! Awesome way to finish a GT. And you were bold enough to place the start in Aeolian Islands, something that i loved. However i think you tried to do too much, and ended up starting to stretch too thin. The best example would be the fact that you should've finish with an ITT, as it was asked. There are also a few things that i didn't like, such as the downhill finishing lines in Gesualdo, Piazza Armerina (a downhill sprint might be a bit too crazy) and Valcasotto (this one should've finished at the top of Colla di Casotto). But I really apprecciate the effort in trying to use every WHS in Italy, outside of Barumini, congrats for that.

3nd place - taarammae_crack
Very solid Giro all around, with some great stage designs, stages 8, 11 and 15 are some of the best examples, but not the only ones. But you have some issues that sadly prevent you from taking the first place. Again, stage 8 is amazing, but its potential is diminished by the fact that you placed a hard ITT afterwards. Also, with such a mountainous race, mainly focused in breaking the race apart far away from the finishing lines, you could use a different type of TT. Stage 9 TT favours the climbers, so it shouldn't open up as much time between the all arounders and them, and thus making the race somewhat more conservative.

2st Place - Kanon16

I really like your Giro, stage 8, 14 and 18 are some of my favourites, but i have to single out your stage 6, as i previously designed a very similar stage with the same finish, it's simply brilliant! There are not many things i'd change, but you could use 1 more stage that gives some chances to the sprinters, and i'm not a big fan of the last 2 stages. Using Gavia on the last stage can be a bit anticlimatic, but regardless of that, that stage, to me, asks for a finish in Lago di Cancano or in Bormio 2000. And your last TT should be a bit longer. Nevertheless, great job!

1st Place - Pincoletto

An awesome giro, very well designed, with a lot of great ideas really well executed. Makes me wish this was the actual Giro 2020. I really appreciate the inclusion of the Slavia Friulana, even if i think that stage might be overshadowed by the next 2 hard stages. Great mountains stages, all of them, and great medium mountain, that stage 9 is beautiful. Good structure and balancing, with the perfect amount of TT for your race. Congrats, to me you're the winner! :D
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by jajoejoe »

5th place: Mauro
Mixed feelings about this tour, the first week and a half is exceptional and after that it goes downhill. The Strade Bianche stage is unoriginal and the last week is too hard with a way too long time trial to top it off

4th place: Xander66
Lacks some real great mountain stages and to much itt, but overall a really great route

3rd place: CelentanoTour
It’s a well designed route, but everything is just too long, it’s just within the legal limit, but 4 200km+ timetrials within 5 days is too much

2nd place: Giorgio.Ponticelli
Really well balanced giro, used almost every place in Italy and the most underrated mountain range in Italy, the mountains north of San Remo

1st place: Pincoletto
Again, really balanced. Right amount of ITT used and a last week that slowly builds up to a crazy mountain stage
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by Xander66 »

To me it was very important that this route had to be made for the month of October, so it couldn’t be the same parcours as any other Giro. You had to actually make changes considering this, and adapt your routes accordingly. Even though the rules allowed it, I personally did not accept climbs above 2500m (unless it was only one climb in a position where snow could have no influence on the outcome of the stage or alternative options were provided). Also, the “obvious” stage finishes in the first week (like Etna and Blockhaus) to me were a bit of a bummer in seeing some routes.

5th: CelentanoTour
Basically, I just loved your presentation. I wasn’t a big fan of your route, but the effort of this kind of presentation deserves at least a point I guess.

4th: Arnorius
Big plus side of your route is considering the other races that would take place during the Giro. You don’t want to lose viewers who are in conflict in choosing a race to watch. However, this resulted in your route being a bit more ‘boring’ in the first two weeks. You’ve obviously put some thought into it, which I appreciate a lot, but I think you could’ve done more with it.

3rd: Jajoejoe
In general, a nice route. No big problems, but no real ‘wow’-moments either, sober but good in my opinion. Your stages are sometimes a bit on the short side, more length might add a bit more difficulty since the climbs aren’t always that high.

2nd: Giorgio.ponticelli
Same as jajoejoe, nothing too special, but still a very good route and maybe a bit more balanced than the others. One thing that I do however not understand at all is where you put your rest days (in your description that is), I just don’t get it..?

1st: Ellvey
Your route immediately caught my eye to be my first spot, so congrats. One big issue however: your stage to Siena, lacks a bit of creativity in my eyes with the dirt roads... but besides that your route is great. I also really loved the fact that you actually thought about snow risks, already suggesting an alternative finish (in your Ceresole stage) in case of bad weather.
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by taaramae_crack »

Fifth place: jajoejoe: your Giro has some good things, but also some I disliked, for example the first TT (It could be much better in the reverse way) or the Etna stage, that finishes a little bit in the middle of nowhere (even if there's a parking). I have to say that your second week is very good, with really nice stages. In the other hand, I think the mountain is a bit soft, (especially in the stages of San Valentino alla Muta and Porlezza), and I don't like neither the finish in Muro di Sormano.

Fourth place - Pincoletto: I find quite good your race, with fine and correct stages, but I just simply feel that the other Giros are better and have more interesting stages. Good job anyway.

Third place - CelentanoTour: I have to congratulate you because of your presentation, it was amazing and gave you some points for being here. You were possibly one of the few people that "respected" the Giro stages kilometers, with a good quantity over 200 km, but with any crazy thing, like I saw in other places. I find stages 8 and 12 pretty nice, but the last week doesn't convince me very much, especially Bormio and Bondone stages.

Second place - mauro: The first thing I noticed is that you included too much short stages (and a 250 one that is pretty mad). Even though, your stages are very good and quite original. SOme details I didn't liked: three flat stages in a row on the second week and the Dolomiti stage would block the attacks in the previous one, that maybe isn't meant to be decisive and even too much exciting, but with this, won't be definitely (but I liked the Pura + Sella di Razzo chain either way).

First place - Xander66: I saw some little mistakes, but globally you did a pretty interesting job, with nice stages (such as the Grappa one) and no strange/weird things. About the mistakes I said, I think stages are a bit short in general for a race like Giro, and the mountain is a bit soft for my taste. In particular, seeing the resto of the Livigno stage could be harder, and that would possibly enhance the last part of the stage, where Foscagno and Eira on their own could be not hard enough for watching a good show.
Last edited by taaramae_crack on 27/07/2020, 0:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by CelentanoTour »

[Ita] Ecco i mie voti per il Contest#5 - Giro d'Italia.
I parametri che ho utilizzato per valutare i percorsi sono un po' gli stessi espressi anche nella descrizione del mio Giro: innanzitutto il rispetto delle richieste del contest, ma anche la fattibilità dei percorsi (in particolare degli arrivi in volata), la presentazione, l'attenzione ai dettagli, la novità. Ogni percorso si deve avvicinare quanto più al reale. Un'altra attenzione particolare è riservata ai GPM: nelle ultime edizioni del Giro molte brevi (e non solo) salite non sono state contrassegnate, tenendo il numero dei GPM sempre sotto i 50. [Faccio queste premesse per spiegare in maniera trasparente le mie valutazioni, rendendole così più chiare].
[Eng P.S. I originally wrote it in Italian, I apologize if the translation might not sounds always perfect] Here are my votes for Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia.
The parameters that I used to evaluate the routes are the same expressed also in the description of my Giro: first of all the respect of the requests of the contest, but also the feasibility of the routes (in particular the arrivals in sprint), the presentation, the attention to detail, the novelty. Each route must be as close as possible to the real. Another particular attention is paid to KOM: in recent editions of the Giro many short (and not only) climbs have not been marked, keeping the number of KOM always below 50. [I make these premises to explain my votes in a transparent way, making them clearer].

FIFTH PLACE - Xander66
[Ita] Innanzitutto molto bella la mappa che hai realizzato, ma dopo mi sarei aspettato una presentazione altrettanto bella, mentre in realtà sono presenti solo le altimetrie senza dettagli. I GPM sono, secondo quanto specificato prima, troppi: in particolare troppe salite di 4° che probabilmente nella realtà non sarebbero classificate. Un errore è la disposizione degli sprint: ce ne dovrebbero essere due in ogni tappa in linea, mentre tu li hai utilizzati solo per segnare i siti UNESCO. I siti non sono sempre coinvolti nel modo giusto, penso all'arrivo di Siena.
D'altra parte mi è piaciuto il tappone decisivo con arrivo a Estoul, ma anche quello di Roccaraso (l'arrivo all'Aremogna sarà affrontato proprio quest'anno).
[Eng] First of all, the map you made is very beautiful, but then I would have expected a presentation just as beautiful, while in reality there are only altimetries without details. The KOM are, as specified above, too many: in particular too many climbs of 4° that probably in reality would not be classified. One mistake is the use of the sprints: there should be two in each stage, while you only used them to mark UNESCO sites. The sites are not always involved in the right way, I think about the arrival of Siena.
On the other hand I liked the decisive stage with arrival in Estoul, but also that of Roccaraso (the arrival at Aremogna will be addressed just this year).

[Ita] Anche in questo caso la presentazione è scarsa. Anche se ci sono più di 50 GPM, il tuo è il numero più basso tra tutti i percorsi che ho selezionato. Mi piace molto la prima tappa: è una cronometro atipica perchè inizia in discesa, ma poi si conclude in salita...molto interessante! Altro punto interessante è l'arrivo alla Colma di Sormano, non so se il Giro ci sia mai arrivato. L'arrivo nello storico circuito di Imola è bello e sarebbe un'ottima promozione del territorio, considerando anche che la F1 tornerà qui a novembre dopo 14 anni. D'altra parte non mi piace molto il groviglio di tappe in Lombardia, potevi sfruttare meglio un bellissimo territorio. In linea generale anche se ci sono alcune imperfezioni (alcuni arrivi in volata risulterebbero davvero difficili per le strade), il Giro mi piace perchè promuove abbastanza bene alcune zone e introduce alcune novità interessanti.
[Eng] Again the presentation is poor. Although there are more than 50 KOM, yours is the lowest number of all the routes I have selected. I really like the first stage: it’s an atypical time trial because it starts downhill, but then it ends uphill...very interesting! Another interesting point is the arrival at the Colma di Sormano, I don’t know if the Giro has ever reached as arrival. The arrival in the historic circuit of Imola is beautiful and would be an excellent promotion of the territory, considering also that F1 will be back here in November after 14 years. On the other hand I don’t really like the tangle of stages in Lombardy, you could make better use of a beautiful territory. Generally, even if there are some imperfections (some arrivals in the sprint would be really difficult on the roads), I like the Giro because it promotes some areas well and introduces some interesting news.

THIRD PLACE - Luigi.russo
[Ita] L'introduzione iniziale è ben articolata e dimostra una certa attenzione ai dettagli (mi fa piacere che qualcun altro si è ricordato della montagna Pantani e del Wine Stage!), ma in seguito la presentazione è un po' scarsa. Quanto ai GPM, al di là del numero, ce ne sono troppi pochi di 4°. Una cosa che rende il Giro difficoltoso e irrealistico è l'attraversamento delle grandi città: Roma e, soprattutto, Napoli e Torino alla fine risultano completamente bloccate!
D'altra parte ci sono alcune parti della corsa veramente interessanti. Innanzitutto si tratta di una corsa, in determinati punti, innovativa. Bello l'arrivo a Cozzo Ferriero e Monte Nerone. Potrebbe sembrare strano, ma la tappa di Aquileia è molto bella: una tappa con lo sterrato nasconde sempre insidi! In questo veramente ti faccio i complimenti perchè ti sei distinto per due motivi: 1) se riesci a rendere interessante anche una tappa completamente pianeggiante e senza un metro di salita, hai disegnato veramente bene; 2) se guardi i percorsi vedrai che praticamente tutti (me compreso) hanno predisposto dei settori di sterrato nella classica tappa di Siena, tu no e ti sei distinto con pieno merito. Bravo!
Molto bello il tappone del monte Pora, credo solo sia troppo distante dall'ultima tappa e che prima dell'arrivo di Milano non ci siano altre tappe decisive (ma questo vorrebbe dire un giro più combattuto fino alla fine...quindi va bene).
[Eng] The initial introduction is well articulated and shows a certain attention to detail (I am pleased that someone else remembered the Pantani mountain and the Wine Stage!), but then the presentation is poor. As for the KOM, beyond the number, there are too few of 4°. One thing that makes the Giro difficult and unrealistic is the crossing of the big cities: Rome and, above all, Naples and Turin in the end are completely blocked!
On the other hand there are some really interesting parts of the race. First of all it is a race, in certain points, innovative. Nice arrival at Cozzo Ferriero and Monte Nerone. It might seem strange, but the stage of Aquileia is very beautiful: a stage with "sterrato" always hides pitfalls! In this I really compliment you because you have distinguished yourself for two reasons: 1) if you can make interesting even a stage completely flat and without a meter of climb, you drew really well; 2) if you look at the routes you will see that all (including me) have inserted the sectors of "sterrato" in the classic stage of Siena, you not and you have distinguished with full merit. Well done!
Very nice the stage of Mount Pora, I think it’s just too far from the last stage and that before the arrival of Milan there are no other decisive stages (but this would mean a more fought Giro to the end...so it’s good).

[Ita] La sfida per le prime due posizioni è stata davvero molto combattuta.
Il Giro è davvero ben disegnato, si vede che ci sai fare! Anche la presentazione è curata abbastanza bene. Veramente interessante la distinzione che hai fatto all'inizio circa i differenti patrimoni UNESCO: sei stato quello ha dedicato la maggior attenzione a questa richiesta del contest, bravissimo! Detto questo, però, mi aspettavo un'altimetria più dettagliata, mentre è caratterizzata solo dal necessario. Anche in questo caso il numero dei GPM è, a mio parere, eccessivo; così come il trasferimento che in alcuni casi è irreale.
Una cosa che mi è piaciuta moltissimo è la Grande Partenza (tra tutte è quella che mi è piaciuta di più) che mi ricorda quella della Vuelta 2019: sei partito da un sito non scontato e comunque famoso. (Una partenza nel pomeriggio, quando il sole inizia a calare e a colorare le acque renderebbe la cornice davvero incantevole!).
In generale il Giro è molto interessante, con luoghi originali. Penso alla cronometro verso il Lago di Campotosto. La partenza da Amatrice sarebbe davvero emozionante dopo il terribile terremoto. Anche l'arrivo nella bellissima Sirmione è sensazionale! Anche tu hai riproposto la Fauniera: la tappa 16 è molto bella, oltre che durissima. Anche la 17 mi piace perchè ripropone l'idea del TdF 2018 nella tappa 17: cortissima, ma con molti GPM.
Infine, però, ti segnalo che la cronometro finale è davvero troppo lunga per essere l'ultima tappa... dopo 21 giorni i corridori arriveranno distrutti! In generale il giudizio è super positivo!
[Eng] The challenge for the first two positions was very much fought.
This Giro is really well designed, you are really good! Even the presentation is well cared for. Really interesting the distinction you made at the beginning about the different UNESCO heritage: you were the one who devoted the greatest attention to this request of the contest, very good! Having said that, however, I expected a more detailed 'altimetry, while it is characterized only by the necessary. Again, the number of KOM is, in my opinion, excessive; as well as the transfer that in some cases is unreal.
One thing I liked very much is the Great Start (of all it’s the one I liked the most) that reminds me of the Vuelta 2019: you started from a site not discounted and however famous. (A departure in the afternoon, when the sun begins to fall and to color the waters would make the scene really enchanting!).
In general the Giro is very interesting, with original places. I think of the chronometer towards Lake Campotosto. The departure from Amatrice would be really exciting after the terrible earthquake. Even the arrival in the beautiful Sirmione is sensational! You too have proposed the Fauniera: stage 16 is very beautiful, as well as very hard. Also the 17 I like because it proposes the idea of the TDF 2018 in stage 17: very short, but with many KOM.
Finally, however, I would like to point out that the final time trial is really too long to be the last stage... after 21 days the riders will arrive destroyed! In general the judgment is super positive!

[Ita] Come detto la sfida per la prima posizione è stata tiratissima: questi due tour sono i migliori di gran lunga!
La grafica della presentazione è veramente fantastica e anche le altimetrie sono abbastanza dettagliate. Anche in questo caso, però, il numero di GPM è eccessivo e anche il trasferimento tra una tappa e l'altra: è vero che c'è di mezzo il giorno di riposo, ma i km sono davvero troppi!
La Grande partenza è bella e unisce due luoghi storici. Ma è ancora più bella la cronometro della tappa 10 (certamente la più bella del contest!): questa tappa è un misto di bellezza, lunghezza, difficoltà. Meraviglioso! Altrettanto interessante è la tappa 18, mediamente breve, ma durissima e, potenzialmente, decisiva. Un arrivo inedito che mi piace molto è quello di Bormio, arrivo esplosivo, ma breve che obbligherà gli scalatori non potentissimi ad attaccare da più lontano: c'è il terreno ideale per una penultima tappa decisiva e bellissima! Anche l'arrivo finale, già affrontato dal Giro in passato, è diverso da quello delle ultime edizioni.
Bella la promozione del territorio e l'utilizzo dei siti UNESCO, che però avresti dovuto segnare sempre con uno sprint o con un GPM.
[Eng] As said the challenge for the first position has been hard-fought: these two tours are the best by far!
The graphics of the presentation are really fantastic and also the altimetries are quite detailed. Even in this case, however, the number of KOM is excessive and also the transfer between one stage and the other: it is true that there is a middle day of rest, but the km are really too much!
The Great Start is beautiful and combines two historic places. But it is even more beautiful the time trial of stage 10 (certainly the most beautiful of the contest!): this stage is a mixture of beauty, length, difficulty. Wonderful! Equally interesting is stage 18, medium short, but very hard and potentially decisive. A new arrival that I really like is that of Bormio, explosive arrival, but short that will force the climbers not very powerful to attack from further away: there is the ideal terrain for a decisive and beautiful penultimate stage! Even the final finish, already faced by the Giro in the past, is different from that of recent editions.
Beautiful the promotion of the territory and the use of UNESCO sites, but you should have always scored with a sprint or with a GPM. Also in this case, the judgment is super!
CelentanoTour - Matteo Celentano
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by giorgio.ponticelli »

This is my final classification:

5th place: Xander66
the race is well designed but it lacks of significant climbs until stage 8 and it presents some uncomfortable transfers. It’s a well balanced tour but i personally wuould have changed stage 17 with a differnt kind of stage (you’ve already long and easy slopes on stage 9).

4th place: CelentanoTour
by the way best presentation without discussion! Interesting the choice to start with a TTT. The race has a good consecuton of stages (I personally like very much Luino stage) although there are not many chances for grimpeurs in the first half, but the ITT kiloeters amount is too much and I don’t like very much a more than 50 Km ITT stage.

3rd place: Kanon16
a tour well balanced in its complex, with many interesting stages (Passo Lavazè one is my prefered), it pays the lack of significant climbs (except mount Etna) in the first half. A stage including Passo Gavia in the second half of October (although permitted by the regulation) is in my personal opinion at high risk of cancellation.

2nd place: Ellvey
not many high mountains in the first half, but many tricky stages (as stage 5 and 9) in between that will keep the race alive. Second and third week in general very balanced, awesome the finals in stage 16 and stage 17, but with two consecutive flat stages at 18th and 19th third week seems upside-down. ITT kilometers are a little bit too much in my opinion compared to climbs ammount.

1st place: Davandluz
a perfect one, I like it from first to third week, stage 17 is probably my favourite of the whole contest. A tour with the right mix between climbs and ITT and all below 2000 meters, very important considered the season.

Special mention to jibvalverde, my favourite between not classificated.
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by jibvalverde »

Sorry but i don't had the time to vote lately. If it's autorised, i maybe could do it tomorrow. If not, sorry again.
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by emmea90 »

Contest ranking
Pincoletto 29
Giorgio.ponticelli 22
CelentanoTour 22
Kanon16 18
Davandluz 18
Jajoejoe 18
Xander66 18
Taaramae_crack 17
Mauro 14
Luigi.russo 12
Ellvey 12
Yellowjersey 8
IamCeeKae 7
Jadmeal 2
Emilio.torre 0
Smokingpuppy841 0
Jibvalverde -1
Robinson59 -4
Arnorius -5
AjachiChakrabarti -7
Diego12Alpe -7
Improb -8
Brumdog66 -10
PaoloAgb -10
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Re: Contest #5 - Giro d'Italia - Voting

Post by kanon16 »

I would only say that I count 19 points (4+2+4+6+3) from votes for me and 3 points bonus for presentation.
I've regularly voted, so my score should be 22, not 18...
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