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Contest 2022 Tour de France discussion

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Fyr3
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Contest 2022 Tour de France discussion

Post by Fyr3 »

Hello all,

In case we come around to July and there is no official Tour de France contest posted by Emmea I thought it would be a good idea to get some thoughts from people on the restrictions that there should be on a non-official contest. I.e:
- How many stages can take place outside of France (in the actual Tour there are 3 stages in Denmark, stage 6 starts in Belgium, stage 8 ends in Belgium and stage 9 starts in Belgium.)
- The limit of a same stage type in a row (e.g. 2 sprint stages maximum, 3 mountain, all dependent on rest days etc.)
- Other restrictions such as rest-days, transfer distances, max / minimum stage lengths, time trial km etc.

I by no means intend to organise a community contest if we have one but I think its a good idea to start considering these sorts of things just incase we don't get any official contests. Everyone is welcome to make suggestions below and I will get this thread to be removed once we either get the official contest or an unofficial one starts :mrgreen:
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving." - Albert Einstein
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Will4563
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Re: Contest 2022 Tour de France discussion

Post by Will4563 »

This is what I think the restrictions should be, if we make a contest:
-The first 3 stages should still be in Denmark, as Denmark payed for it, but not it don't have to be in Copenhagen.
-The Tour can still go into other countries, but not Andorra, as it was used last year.
-There should be one cobble stage, just like this year, because who knows when the next will come.
-There can be 2 sprint stages after each other, there can't be 3 sprint stages in a row if a rest day is in the middle.
-There can be 3 mountain stages after each other, if there is a rest day, there can be more.
-The maximum length of the Tour should not be more than 3500 km.
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BETTO
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Re: Contest 2022 Tour de France discussion

Post by BETTO »

Will4563 wrote: 04/05/2022, 13:09 This is what I think the restrictions should be, if we make a contest:
-The first 3 stages should still be in Denmark, as Denmark payed for it, but not it don't have to be in Copenhagen.
-The Tour can still go into other countries, but not Andorra, as it was used last year.
-There should be one cobble stage, just like this year, because who knows when the next will come.
-There can be 2 sprint stages after each other, there can't be 3 sprint stages in a row if a rest day is in the middle.
-There can be 3 mountain stages after each other, if there is a rest day, there can be more.
-The maximum length of the Tour should not be more than 3500 km.
I agree
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Fyr3
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Re: Contest 2022 Tour de France discussion

Post by Fyr3 »

Will4563 wrote: 04/05/2022, 13:09 This is what I think the restrictions should be, if we make a contest:
-The first 3 stages should still be in Denmark, as Denmark payed for it, but not it don't have to be in Copenhagen.
-The Tour can still go into other countries, but not Andorra, as it was used last year.
-There should be one cobble stage, just like this year, because who knows when the next will come.
-There can be 2 sprint stages after each other, there can't be 3 sprint stages in a row if a rest day is in the middle.
-There can be 3 mountain stages after each other, if there is a rest day, there can be more.
-The maximum length of the Tour should not be more than 3500 km.
Yeah seems like a good starting point. I would also suggest a stage start or finish dedicated to a famous figure in french history. For example I believe the Dole stage is dedicated to Louis Pasteur.
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving." - Albert Einstein
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mauro
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Re: Contest 2022 Tour de France discussion

Post by mauro »

Fyr3 wrote: 04/05/2022, 20:04
Will4563 wrote: 04/05/2022, 13:09 This is what I think the restrictions should be, if we make a contest:
-The first 3 stages should still be in Denmark, as Denmark payed for it, but not it don't have to be in Copenhagen.
-The Tour can still go into other countries, but not Andorra, as it was used last year.
-There should be one cobble stage, just like this year, because who knows when the next will come.
-There can be 2 sprint stages after each other, there can't be 3 sprint stages in a row if a rest day is in the middle.
-There can be 3 mountain stages after each other, if there is a rest day, there can be more.
-The maximum length of the Tour should not be more than 3500 km.
Yeah seems like a good starting point. I would also suggest a stage start or finish dedicated to a famous figure in french history. For example I believe the Dole stage is dedicated to Louis Pasteur.
Another anniversary that could be taken into consideration is the centenary of the birth of Jean de Gribaldy, a cyclist originally from Besançon who was most famous as sporting director and "talent scout" of riders of the caliber of Sean Kelly, Joaquim Agostinh, Steven Rooks and Éric Caritoux
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Bocmanis82
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Re: Contest 2022 Tour de France discussion

Post by Bocmanis82 »

Will4563 wrote: 04/05/2022, 13:09 This is what I think the restrictions should be, if we make a contest:
-The first 3 stages should still be in Denmark, as Denmark payed for it, but not it don't have to be in Copenhagen.
-The Tour can still go into other countries, but not Andorra, as it was used last year.
-There should be one cobble stage, just like this year, because who knows when the next will come.
-There can be 2 sprint stages after each other, there can't be 3 sprint stages in a row if a rest day is in the middle.
-There can be 3 mountain stages after each other, if there is a rest day, there can be more.
-The maximum length of the Tour should not be more than 3500 km.
These points makes sense. A few additions:
- UCI rules
- key parts of TDF 2021 cannot be used
- stage finishes should be realistic logistically, financially
- no "goat" tracks, unrealistic roads
- free to choose the sequence of mountain ranges
- finish in Champs-Élysées
- don't make cobbles or climbs (for instance, Alpe d'Huez) mandatory. For instance, it was quite boring that we had to use Mont Ventoux last year. Therefore, let people choose whether they want to use cobbles in their routes.
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Will4563
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Re: Contest 2022 Tour de France discussion

Post by Will4563 »

Bocmanis82 wrote: 16/05/2022, 20:56
Will4563 wrote: 04/05/2022, 13:09 This is what I think the restrictions should be, if we make a contest:
-The first 3 stages should still be in Denmark, as Denmark payed for it, but not it don't have to be in Copenhagen.
-The Tour can still go into other countries, but not Andorra, as it was used last year.
-There should be one cobble stage, just like this year, because who knows when the next will come.
-There can be 2 sprint stages after each other, there can't be 3 sprint stages in a row if a rest day is in the middle.
-There can be 3 mountain stages after each other, if there is a rest day, there can be more.
-The maximum length of the Tour should not be more than 3500 km.
These points makes sense. A few additions:
- UCI rules
- key parts of TDF 2021 cannot be used
- stage finishes should be realistic logistically, financially
- no "goat" tracks, unrealistic roads
- free to choose the sequence of mountain ranges
- finish in Champs-Élysées
- don't make cobbles or climbs (for instance, Alpe d'Huez) mandatory. For instance, it was quite boring that we had to use Mont Ventoux last year. Therefore, let people choose whether they want to use cobbles in their routes.
I agree in
- UCI rules
- key parts of TDF 2021
- stage finishes should be realistic logistically, financially
- free to choose the sequence of mountain ranges (I know I said different before)
- finish in Champs-Élysées (doesn't have to be bunch sprint)

I didn't think it was boring, when people used the same climb, it was fun to see the different stages people could make with the same climb. So I still think there should be a cobble stage, and maybe people have to use Galibier, as it is climbed twice this year.
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benoît.guillot
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Re: Contest 2022 Tour de France discussion

Post by benoît.guillot »

Hello !Too many times in thos constest, some uses real part of the Tour of this year. Can we add "key parts of the Tour 2022 cannot be used" ?
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Will4563
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Re: Contest 2022 Tour de France discussion

Post by Will4563 »

benoît.guillot wrote: 18/05/2022, 17:15 Hello !Too many times in thos constest, some uses real part of the Tour of this year. Can we add "key parts of the Tour 2022 cannot be used" ?
So that means almost no climbs in the Pyrenees.
No Aubisque, Spandalles, Hautacam, Tourmalet, Luz Ardiden, Aspin, Huerqette, Perysoude, Val Louren and Portet. That's almost all passes in that region, where there is the most drama in the Pyreenes. But it would also be a good idea, to make the challenge more difficult.
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Will4563
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Re: Contest 2022 Tour de France discussion

Post by Will4563 »

Maybe we could put all this to a vote, by adding all the suggestions, and making people vote for and against everything. Then we can see what people think.

I can quickly find every suggestion.
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Bocmanis82
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Re: Contest 2022 Tour de France discussion

Post by Bocmanis82 »

benoît.guillot wrote: 18/05/2022, 17:15 Hello !Too many times in thos constest, some uses real part of the Tour of this year. Can we add "key parts of the Tour 2022 cannot be used" ?
Parts of current TDF usually is allowed but key parts of previous year usually are not allowed. For example, you can't use Tourmalet + Luz Ardiden or Azet + Col de Portet combos. However, you can use Tourmalet, Ancizan, Azet and Peyragudes because a) Tourmalet is climbed from different side, b) it is first climb of the day. Also, Tourmalet, Sulour, Spandelles and Hautacam should be acceptable.
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Bocmanis82
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Re: Contest 2022 Tour de France discussion

Post by Bocmanis82 »

Will4563 wrote: 18/05/2022, 17:38 So that means almost no climbs in the Pyrenees.
No Aubisque, Spandalles, Hautacam, Tourmalet, Luz Ardiden, Aspin, Huerqette, Perysoude, Val Louren and Portet. That's almost all passes in that region, where there is the most drama in the Pyrenees. But it would also be a good idea, to make the challenge more difficult.
IMO, designing route without parts from 2021 and 2022 would be too restrictive and too complicated. Also, if you don't allow key parts of TDF 2022 then you can't oblige people to put cobbles or Galibier on their routes. In general, you had good points about cobbles and Galibier.
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drmeanfield
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Re: Contest 2022 Tour de France discussion

Post by drmeanfield »

Just my 5 cents, I think the most restrictions you apply to a route, the more challenging it is designing it, and that could be what some users are looking for, but on the other hand, for less experienced users, such as myself, the least restrictions, the more appealed we (or at least I) can be to taking part into a contest.

21 stages, one stage a day (no double sectors), 3 rest days, first four days are three stages in Denmark and a rest day and last day is a sprint stage at Champs Élysées plus some common sense restrictions like not putting rest days on weekends or 14th July, visiting both the Alps and Pyrenees (and a few more areas of France), making a balanced route, avoiding very bad roads (although I find it funny experimenting with what are just bad roads) and putting finish lines in the middle of nowhere should suffice. I guess UCI rules might cover other restrictions (allowed stage lengths, when is it allowed to put a team time trial, transfer length between stages...) I might have missed in that list and that should be enforced as well.

Regarding avoiding the use of 2021 key parts: I guess avoiding 2021 routes completely is almost impossible, when many editions of the Tour de France share many common elements (besides last stage), especially when approaching the Pyrenees: the transition stage that finishes in Carcassonne, the stage that departs from Pau and passing through Tourmalet are almost always present. I would avoid the same top finishes, Mont Ventoux, Andorra, the Bretagne, time trial routes and stages too similar to the ones in 2021; this last point is kind of vague, but I think climbing Tourmalet through the northern side should be allowed, chaining Romme and Colombière or getting the 30km with the hardest cotes of stage 8, not.

With 2022 elements, I wouldn't neither forbid their use nor make them compulsory.
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Fyr3
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Re: Contest 2022 Tour de France discussion

Post by Fyr3 »

drmeanfield wrote: 25/05/2022, 10:08 Just my 5 cents, I think the most restrictions you apply to a route, the more challenging it is designing it, and that could be what some users are looking for, but on the other hand, for less experienced users, such as myself, the least restrictions, the more appealed we (or at least I) can be to taking part into a contest.

21 stages, one stage a day (no double sectors), 3 rest days, first four days are three stages in Denmark and a rest day and last day is a sprint stage at Champs Élysées plus some common sense restrictions like not putting rest days on weekends or 14th July, visiting both the Alps and Pyrenees (and a few more areas of France), making a balanced route, avoiding very bad roads (although I find it funny experimenting with what are just bad roads) and putting finish lines in the middle of nowhere should suffice. I guess UCI rules might cover other restrictions (allowed stage lengths, when is it allowed to put a team time trial, transfer length between stages...) I might have missed in that list and that should be enforced as well.

Regarding avoiding the use of 2021 key parts: I guess avoiding 2021 routes completely is almost impossible, when many editions of the Tour de France share many common elements (besides last stage), especially when approaching the Pyrenees: the transition stage that finishes in Carcassonne, the stage that departs from Pau and passing through Tourmalet are almost always present. I would avoid the same top finishes, Mont Ventoux, Andorra, the Bretagne, time trial routes and stages too similar to the ones in 2021; this last point is kind of vague, but I think climbing Tourmalet through the northern side should be allowed, chaining Romme and Colombière or getting the 30km with the hardest cotes of stage 8, not.

With 2022 elements, I wouldn't neither forbid their use nor make them compulsory.
yeah this all seems sensible to me.
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving." - Albert Einstein
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