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Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Compete in the contests and become the best stagemaker!
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emmea90
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Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by emmea90 »

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Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

In this topic you can vote for the European Pre-Season Races, according to the following rules.

PLEASE READ ALL THE POST BEFORE VOTING

How to vote

1 - You have to judge the track according to the requirements.
For the first contest, we ask you to create TWO European pre-season races, to be held in the beginning of February, replacing Andalucia and Algarve. The new races shall be held in regions that doesn't actually have a race

Requirements:
- One race should be composed by five stages, the other by six
- The two races should be for two different type of riders
- The two races should be in Europe, Southern Europe, in one or two of the following regions
Spain: Murcia
Spain: Balearic Islands, excluding Mallorca that already have his challenge
Italy: Calabria
Italy: Basilicata
Italy: Puglia
Italy: Campania
Italy: Sardinia
Greece: You can use all greece, but contest must be focused on one-two regions
Malta: All both Malta and Comino island
Cyprus: All Cyprus
- One of the two races should be a "one-hotel only race" (example: Vuelta a San Juan), so with all stage start/finishes going around to a city
- One of the two races should have an ITT
2 - You have to write in a post your best FIVE routes, from worse to best, providing a brief motivation for each choice
FIFTH PLACE
(Motivation)

FOURTH PLACE
(Motivation)

THIRD PLACE
(Motivation)

SECOND PLACE
(Motivation)

FIRST PLACE
(Motivation)
How does it work?
- First choice got 6 points, second 4, third 3, fourth 2 and fifth 1 point.
- Presentation bonus grant you 3 points (we will add later with penalties who took the bonus)
- Ranking will be made according to points obtained
- In case of equality I will decide the winner
- YOU CAN'T VOTE FOR YOURSELF
- You can also comment other people's reviews regarding your or other one's routes
- YOU CAN'T CHANGE YOUR VOTE ONCE SUBMITTED

Who can vote?
- Every user that submitted a contest (full points vote)
- Every user in the La Flamme Rouge Staff (Emmea90, Pigna, Sagan99, Matthorse, Nasdon33, Linkinito, Bose12)
- Every user that has registered BEFORE today and has at least 10 tracks in the editor. In this case, his votes counts half of the points scale

Penalties
- Every user that submitted a contest and doesn't submit a valid vote (with 5 choices and motivations) will get a 10 points penalty for all his routes.
- It's FORBBIDDEN to ask for votes. Who will be caught public or privately asking for a vote to some users will get a 50 points penalty in first instance, then the exclusion from all the contests of the year
- Vote penalties for unpracticable routes will be assigned by staff during this phase

Requisites for the +3 bonus
- Providing link of the tour in the post
- Providing viewable image of each stage with a description in the post

Deadline for vote phase is february 29, h 23.59

Routes
emilio.torre: maps/tours/view/13722 and maps/tours/view/13726
diego12alpe: maps/tours/view/13728 and maps/tours/view/13725
mauro: maps/tours/view/13720 and maps/tours/view/13721
jajoejoe: maps/tours/view/13733 and maps/tours/view/13730
oliveiras: maps/tours/view/13745 and maps/tours/view/13748
SmokingPuppy841: maps/tours/view/13752 and maps/tours/view/13763
jibvalverde: maps/tours/view/13783 and maps/tours/view/13784
benoit.guillot: maps/tours/view/13750 and maps/tours/view/13751 +3 presentation
JADmeal: maps/tours/view/13766 and maps/tours/view/13794
paoloagb: maps/tours/view/13852 and maps/tours/view/13853 +3 presentation
taaramae_crack: maps/tours/view/13844 and maps/tours/view/13851 +3 presentation
Arnorius: maps/tours/view/13842 and maps/tours/view/13841
ColDuRosier: maps/tours/view/13773 and maps/tours/view/13817

TourDeFranceGo not admitted as he delivered one route only.
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jajoejoe
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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by jajoejoe »

Why haven't I gotten a bonus for my presentation? I posted pictures of every stage with a description and added the links to the tours.

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emmea90
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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by emmea90 »

jajoejoe wrote:
18/02/2020, 23:18
Why haven't I gotten a bonus for my presentation? I posted pictures of every stage with a description and added the links to the tours.
Because your images aren't viewable.
Image
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jajoejoe
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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by jajoejoe »

emmea90 wrote:
19/02/2020, 8:35
jajoejoe wrote:
18/02/2020, 23:18
Why haven't I gotten a bonus for my presentation? I posted pictures of every stage with a description and added the links to the tours.
Because your images aren't viewable.
Image
That's weird because I have no problem viewing them, well it's only 3 points so I just have to accept it

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emmea90
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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by emmea90 »

jajoejoe wrote:
19/02/2020, 13:22
emmea90 wrote:
19/02/2020, 8:35
jajoejoe wrote:
18/02/2020, 23:18
Why haven't I gotten a bonus for my presentation? I posted pictures of every stage with a description and added the links to the tours.
Because your images aren't viewable.
Image
That's weird because I have no problem viewing them, well it's only 3 points so I just have to accept it
According to the links, they are some images from google. Probably you see them because you are logged with your Google account in browser.
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jajoejoe
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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by jajoejoe »

emmea90 wrote:
19/02/2020, 16:28
jajoejoe wrote:
19/02/2020, 13:22
emmea90 wrote:
19/02/2020, 8:35


Because your images aren't viewable.
Image
That's weird because I have no problem viewing them, well it's only 3 points so I just have to accept it
According to the links, they are some images from google. Probably you see them because you are logged with your Google account in browser.
That is the problem, weird because I did the same in the contests for last year, but thanks for helping me!

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emilio.torre
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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by emilio.torre »

There's my five voting choices, for European Preseason Races Contest.

5TH POSITION - JADmeal
tours/view/13794
I like the idea to create a ride around Sardinia but not very hard like that, an uphill and high mountain finish are beautiful but they don't attract me so much.

4TH POSITION - Arnorius
tours/view/13841
The Arnorius's Tour of Cyprus is structured with only high mountain stages and a hilly stage, i dont'like the idea to make a stage races with that.

3TH POSITION - Benoit.guillot
maps/tours/view/13750
I like it that route, very hard like the original Vuelta a Murcia but with acceptable imperfection it deserves my personal podium.

2TH POSITION - Mauro
maps/tours/view/13721
Is fantastic to create a race around Salento's plain and Apullian hills, I like that, is a perfect preparation for spring classics.

1ST POSITION - Jibvalverde
maps/tours/view/13784
Stage race on my region and a finish on my city Nocera Inferiore, I love that creation, i never seen a better ride like that

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Diego12Alpe
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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by Diego12Alpe »

5. jibvalverde
Good race for a puncheur, but I also think Tour Campanie is for a puncheur. Both are well made but I think both are more or less for the same type of rider.

4. emilio.torre
Sarrastians Tour: It's a good Tour but I think the zone could be used better and the stages more different.
Giro di Puglia: I think it's better done but I would like to see other types of stages, for example a little hill at 5km to the end or something like that.

3. ColDuRosier
Malta Tour: I think there are too much stages finishing in a little climb, maybe with one of those and other stage with hills near the finish would be a very good race.
Giro di Basilicata: I think it's a good race but not a good race for puncheurs, I think it's a little bit hard for sprinters and a little bit soft fot puncheurs.

2. taaramae_crack
Volta Ciclista a Menorca: Race for sprinters but with a very hard climb at the end of one stgae I think is a good way to make the sprinters fight for the race.
Giro del Gargano: Very good medium mountain stages where there could be attacks far of the finish line but I think are a little bit similiar to each other.

1. pabloagb
Ibiza Challenge: I think it's a good race for sprinters with two tricky stages where they have to be very competitive if they want to win.
Vuelta a Murcia: Very good race using very good the difficulties in the zone and making different type of stages.

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SmokingPuppy841
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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by SmokingPuppy841 »

Personally, I thought all of the routes were quite good but I felt some were better than others. Some others were good, but produced 2 similar races.

5) ColDuRosier

I really like the idea of a Mountain ITT, something which isn't seen that often, particularly early in the season.

4) benoit.guillot

2 nice routes, but I feel like the ITT at Sardinia is slightly to long to be in balance with the rest of the race.

3) taaramae_crack

Menorca is a nice place for a bike race and the races will produce different winners.

2) pabloagb

Ibiza was a unique choice, and creates a different race to Murcia.

1) Arnorius

Some people will be turned off by 4 consecutive high mountain stages, but I think it'll create some exciting Racing, particularly due to the weaker riders and variety of summit and descent finishes.

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benoît.guillot
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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by benoît.guillot »

FIFTH PLACE : emilio.torre
Two good tour, well designed, but way to flat for me

FOURTH PLACE : ColduRosier
Your Giro di Basilicata is pretty good for sure , but I don't like the sprinter race you've made in Malta. But I salute the effort, the daring and the construction so, it's a fourth place !

THIRD PLACE : Diego12Alpe
What a great 5 Days in Athens ! I way less convinced by the Giro du Puglia but that'll do the third place for me.

SECOND PLACE : taaramae_crack
That's pretty solid work and I can assure that the choice been hard between you and Mauro for the first place. You both drawn beautiful races. I had to make a choice, let's say that I choose Athens race because it make me discover new regions of cycling.

FIRST PLACE : Mauro
Your Star of Athens and SalenTour are the most exciting way to begin the european season, congrats.

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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by Neverlight »

My votes :

5th place - taaramae_crack : I like the stages from the Volta a Menorca even if it seems too small to organise a race there.

4th place - emilio.torre : The Sarrastians Tour has great stages but looks like a stage race to prepare the hard summer races.

3rd place - Benoit.guillot : The Trofeo Alejandro Valverde seems a little bit too hard for a race in february but I like the stages.

2nd place - ColDuRosier : I like that those two races are different, even if the Malta Tour seems too much for the puncheurs.

1st place - mauro : I love the idea of a race around Athenes and the south of Italy is always missed by cycling fans. It's well designed and great for an early show. R&R

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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by JAdmeal »

Fifth place: Diego12alpe
Awesome 5 Days of Athens with lots of interesting stages and almost perfect Giro di Puglia. The only problem I found was that the winner of the time trial will win "easily" this stage tour as the aren't enough hard stages or sprints to avoid that.

Fouth place: taaramae_crack
I love the Vuelta a Menorca with exciting stages for punchers. I also find the Giro del Gargano flawless. It's not further up because both races have too much time trial and probably it will decide the stage tour.

Third Place: paoloagb
The Vuelta a Murcia is a really good race for stage racers with different but also challenging stages. And the Ibiza Challenge is really good for punchers. We can see some great battles here. The only reason you're third is because almost all of the stages are for punchers and, although I love puncher stages, I'd prefer to see some variety.

Second Place: Arnorius
I like the Giro di Sardegna except for the fourth stage, it might be too difficult for punchers. And the Tour of Cyprus is spectacular. Awesome layout with difficult stages and long climbs. You aren't my winner because it's maybe too hard to be in February.

First Place: jibvalverde
Another great puncher stage race in Murcia. But what gives you the win is the Giro di Campania. I absolutely love the layout with some hard stages but not too much so it can be raced in February.

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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by ColDuRosier »

FIFTH PLACE: jajoejoe
I like his Tour of Athens a lot, with a nice prologue and good variation in stages. The Giro di Sardegna seems hard for February and features a stage of 230km stage. Good thing that it's relatively flat. Nice finishes to the Capo Caccia and Dorgali. Maybe one hill/mountain too many.

FOURTH PLACE: benoit.guillot
Got the balance just right in his first tour, in my opinion. The second race is hard, but not necessarily in the finals of the stages, so anything can happen. The 49km TT could kill it a bit though. Weird to see that in early February. I would have rated it higher if it was 15km shorter, but that's just my opinion, I guess.

THIRD PLACE: taaramae_crack
Not sure about some of the turning points in the stages on Menorca. 6km's or so could get the peloton in trouble if they let it slide a little. On the other hand, making the best out of a quite small island. The second tour has a nice regional focus, nice stages and possibly breath-taking ITT (if shot with a helicopter).

SECOND PLACE: mauro
Good difficulty, nice variation and mountain top finish in Athens, but maybe one to many starts in Athens itself. Incredibly compact SalenTour in Italy. The combination of a very short prologue and relatively flat stages will make it an ideal sprinters race, which doesn't happen a lot in Italy and February.

FIRST PLACE: diego12alpe
Original choice for Athens (although also chosen by others). I like the mountain top finish, because it is not to steep. Nice variation in the stages, making it difficult to predict the winner beforehand. Not sure about a 230km stage in early February though. The race in Puglia could use some wind, but could have either a sprinter or a time-trialist as a GC winner, which is unlike the current February races and therefore, in my opinion, a good choice.

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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by oliveiras »

FIFTH PLACE:Mauro
SalenTour
Very balanced proof , I just thought that the ITT doesn't match the race.
FOURTH PLACE benoit.guillot
Giro di Sardignia
Funny proof, I found it too difficult for the height in question, I think that in the region there would be another type of terrain for the height in question.
THIRD PLACE : taaramae_crack
Menorca
for the courage to do in a demilite region
SECOND PLACE : ColDuRosier
Malta Tour .
for the courage to do in a demilite region
FIRST PLACE: pabloagb
Vuelta a Murcia
You managed to re-invent an existing race, you managed to make it a race by stage seriously, I found the route very interesting, selective but not too hard, as the stages should be at this time of the year.
Last edited by oliveiras on 02/03/2020, 0:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by jibvalverde »

5th place : Emilio.torre

I like both of your races even if i wolf prefer to have a high mountain stage on one of them.

4th place : Diego12Alpe

I really like 5 Days of Athens, especially the last stage. Good race in Puglia too.

3rd place : benoit.guillot

You name your race « Trofeo Alejandro Valverde » and it’s enough ^^ More seriously, i like the Murcian race, well balanced with your Giro di Sardignia.

2nd place : Arnorius

I really love both of your races and you probably had the first place if you didn’t put Mount Olympus in the last stage.

1st place : ColduRosier

I was asking me is someone has accepted the challenge to make a great stage’s race in Malta. You did and you did very well. First place deserved just for that, even if i like your other race too.

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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by emmea90 »

oliveiras wrote:
25/02/2020, 17:46
FIFTH PLACE:Mauro
SalenTour
FOURTH PLACE benoit.guillot
Giro di Sardignia
THIRD PLACE : taaramae_crack
Menorca
SECOND PLACE : ColDuRosier
Malta Tour .
FIRST PLACE: pabloagb
Vuelta a Murcia
Please provide some motivation, otherwise your vote is not valid.
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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by taaramae_crack »

FIFTH PLACE: diego12alpe

Your 5 days of Athens have quite interesting things, but Giro di Puglia is very light for me. In the hardest stages climbs are too far from the finish line and all of them might end in a sprint.

FOURTH PLACE: ColduRosier

Giro di Basilicata is not a masterpiece, but it's good and I have to say liked very much the idea of the ITT. Malta Tour wasn't something easy to create and you wer the only one who dared to do it. I don't like to see so many circuits in a race but I know the limitations of the island, so nothing to complain here. Good job.

THIRD PLACE: JADmeal

Here I have to say I'm a great fan of some of the stages you created (especially the Mount Olympus one) and I want to see someday something similar in real cycling, but I have to say they are way too hard for a winter race (and for almost any race :lol: ), and you did a Giro di Sardegna with 5 stages over 200 km !!! With not so hard stages but the same style you could have been higher on my ranking because I have to say I liked some of the very much.

SECOND PLACE: jajoejoe

For me, you probably have the best tours (or at least you would be very close to Mauro), but I saw a main mistake, they are too similar to each other, and the rules say they had to suit different type of riders, and I think yours don't. I also have to mention another little mistake I saw: in third stage of Giro di Sardegna I think that the last circuit is too short and some riders could get easily overlapped. This is not trascendental, and I didn't took it into account, but is something that is good to avoid.

FIRST PLACE: Mauro

Very interesting race in Greece, with some varied stages (even though I would have liked to see a bit harder medium mountain stages) and a nice election of starting and finishing places. Yo did a great job in SalenTour too, seizeing all the terrain you had aviable in a quite flat and limited place. And also you were one of the few people who found some original names for their tours :D Congratulations !!

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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by pabloagb »

I decided to review all of the tours, then select my top 5. Some observations I'd like to make before the comments are that some people just designed two similar tours, and some others didn't meet the one-hotel rule (which I admit is somewhat vague).
In my opinion, there were three possible options. Demanding tour with high mountain, medium mountain tour old Tirreno Adriatico style or Tour Down Under style tour for sprinters that can sprint uphill.

emilio.torre
Sarrastians Tour: I don´t like the prologue (too many turns in 4 km).
I wouldn't have done a finish on Lettere (I would put the finish after the climb).
The other stages I like very much.
Giro di Puglia: This one is very nice, more focused on sprinters.
The first tour should be a bit more demanding, but it is not bad at all.

diego12alpe
5 Days of Athens: It is a great 5-day tour, with great medium mountain stages.
Giro di Puglia: It is way too flat.
I like the idea of a tour for sprinters, but they should facilitate some chances for reduced sprints.

mauro
Astéri tis Athínas: The first three stages are very uninspiring.
The high mountain stage should be more demanding.
It is too biased towards time trialists in my opinion.
SalenTour: It is a bit too flat, but sprinters will have to work for their meal on stage 4.

jajoejoe
Giro di Sardegna: It is a good tour with great medium mountain stages.
However, you should have put the last stage earlier.
Tour of Athens: Another good tour with great stages.
The placement of the stages is better than in the other tour.
However, it is very similar to the other tour.

oliveiras
Murcia: The first four stages would be four very dull mass sprints.
The fifth stage is nice, with various different possible outcomes.
Unfortunately, it is too biased towards time trialists.
Giro Puglia: Terrible stages. It is similar to the previous tour.
You didn't meet the requirement of a one-hotel race.

SmokingPuppy841
Tour of Menorca: Great tour, but it didn't need an ITT.
The ITT is too twisty and has too many turns.
Giro di Sardinia: Fine stages and tour, but this is the one that should have included the ITT.

jibvalverde
Tour Carthagène LFR: It is a very weird tour.
It features the same climb on too many stages.
The two most demanding stages are well-designed though.
However, the ITT is too long.
Tour Campanie LFR: It is a nice tour, with two well-designed medium mountain stages at the end.
Great mountain-top finish on Monte Faito and an adequate ITT.

benoît.guillot
Trofeo Alejandro Valverde: I don't like the structure, but the first four stages are OK.
However, the last stage shouldn't be a mountain-top finish.
Giro di Sardignia: The ITT is too long. The last stage should have been more demanding.
The rest of the stages are fine.
Both tours are for the same kind of riders.
You haven't met the one-hotel requirement.

JAdmeal
5 Days of Nicosia: I absolutely love this proposal. The three medium mountain stages are very nice.
They will provide chances for many kinds of riders.
The ITT is the right length.
Giro di Sardegna. Tour of Sardinia: Very demanding stages. Maybe too much (Zomegnan), but I like the effort you put in them.

taaramae_crack
Volta Ciclista a Menorca: You made the best use of the limited possibilities that Menorca offers.
The only downside is the fact that the ITT is too long.
Giro del Gargano: Another well-designed tour with great stages.
You made great use of the roads available in the region.

arnorius
Giro di Sardegna: Nicely designed stages, but a poor structure of the race, limiting the potential of the two medium mountain stages.
Tour of Cyprus: Very demanding stages, but this tour needs an ITT. It is too unbalanced.
Moreover, there isn't much of a difference between both tours. They both are for climbers and GT riders.
Finally, none of the tours is really a one-hotel race.

ColDuRosier
Giro di Basilicata: Well designed and original stages and good structure.
It is a great race, open to many different riders.
Malta Tour: Great tour for sprinters and punchers, without an ITT, as it should be.

1st: ColDuRosier
2nd: taaramae_crack
3rd: JAdmeal
4th: emilio.torre
5th: jibvalverde

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Arnorius
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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by Arnorius »

I used some of my own rules, for example routes with stages of 230 km I didn’t take even to consideration, because I think that’s never happening in races as these.


1) Benoit.guillot
Didn't really see something wrong with it

2) Jibvalverde
Just on the profiles you would have won. But there is a railroad crossing in your ITT in Cartaghene... :s

3) Mauro
Same as above, one thing I didn't like. Some finishes are quite dangerous for sprinters stages.

4) ColDuRosier
I’m not really a big fan of those smaller islands, not many roads to take and mostly the same.

5) Paoloagb?
To my opinion you made a little bit too many local laps

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Re: Contest #1 - European Pre-Season Races - VOTING

Post by jajoejoe »

Fifth place: Diego12Alpe
With the Tour of Athens we coincidentally had the same idea so that is great. I don't think the Giro di Puglia is too flat, in completely flat races riders will try their best to make gaps and meybe even some echelons.

Fourth place: Taaramae_Crack
Menorca Time Trial is just too long, but the rest is great. Giro del Gargano is also great. Because every rider has a chance and it might be a great preparation race for the stages in the same region coming Giro.

Third Place: Mauro
Athens tour looks like mine so I can't have much to critique. Salentour is very uninspiring though.

Second Place: Emilio.Torre
Looks like 2 great races just to prepare for later on in the season. Exactly what the point is of this contest.

First Place: ColDuRosier
Great stage races for 2 different types of riders. Basilicata Tour is amazing because you used up the whole region.

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