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Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

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emmea90
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Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by emmea90 »

Image
Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - Voting


In this topic you can vote for the Benelux Cobbled Classics, according to the following rules.

PLEASE READ ALL THE POST BEFORE VOTING


How to vote

1 - You have to judge the track according to the requirements: post31301.html#p31301

2 - You have to write in a post your best FIVE routes, from worse to best, providing a brief motivation for each choice
FIFTH PLACE
(Motivation)

FOURTH PLACE
(Motivation)

THIRD PLACE
(Motivation)

SECOND PLACE
(Motivation)

FIRST PLACE
(Motivation)
How does it work?
- First choice got 6 points, second 4, third 3, fourth 2 and fifth 1 point.
- Presentation bonus grant you 3 points (we will add later with penalties who took the bonus)
- Ranking will be made according to points obtained
- In case of equality I will decide the winner
- YOU CAN'T VOTE FOR YOURSELF
- You can also comment other people's reviews regarding your or other one's routes
- YOU CAN'T CHANGE YOUR VOTE ONCE SUBMITTED

Who can vote?
- Every user that submitted a contest (full points vote)
- Every user in the La Flamme Rouge Staff (Emmea90, Pigna, Sagan99, Matthorse, Nasdon33, Linkinito, Bose12)
- Every user that has registered BEFORE today and has at least 10 tracks in the editor. In this case, his votes counts half of the points scale

Penalties
- Every user that submitted a contest and doesn't submit a valid vote (with 5 choices and motivations) will get a 10 points penalty for all his routes.
- It's FORBBIDDEN to ask for votes. Who will be caught public or privately asking for a vote to some users will get a 50 points penalty in first instance, then the exclusion from all the contests of the year
- Vote penalties for unpracticable routes will be assigned by staff during this phase

Requisites for the +3 bonus
- Providing link of the tour in the post
- Providing viewable image of each stage with a description in the post of at least Men Elite races

Deadline for vote phase is may 15, h 23.59

Routes
Jajoejoe: maps/tours/view/14185 +3 presentation
Mauro: maps/tours/view/14171 +3 presentation
Kanon16: maps/tours/view/14180 +3 presentation
Micek_52: maps/tours/view/14177 +3 presentation
Diego12Alpe: maps/tours/view/14184 +3 presentation
Benoit.Guillot: maps/tours/view/14178 +3 presentation
JibValverde: maps/tours/view/14303
Ellvey: maps/tours/view/14265 +3 presentation
Davandluz: maps/tours/view/14252 +3 presentation
Sportdani19: maps/tours/view/14183
PaoloAgb: maps/tours/view/14355 +3 presentation
AjachiChakrabarti: maps/tours/view/14364 +3 presentation
Zaufkauf: maps/tours/view/14158 +3 presentation
Jekp: maps/tours/view/14284 +3 presentation
TourDeFranceGo: maps/tours/view/14308 no bonus - image missing
AntoineVds: maps/tours/view/14455 +3 presentation
Rober_Vlc: maps/tours/view/14471
Pincoletto: maps/tours/view/14456 +3 presentation
Nieky: maps/tours/view/14193 +3 presentation
Smokingpuppyb41: maps/tours/view/14509 no bonus - image missing
Pontix: maps/tours/view/14447 no bonus - image missing
Improb: maps/tours/view/14304 +3 presentation
Piet_Agoras: maps/tours/view/14172 +3 presentation
Mike2496: maps/tours/view/14166 +3 presentation
ColDuRosier: maps/tours/view/14268 +3 presentation
Carlo33: maps/tours/view/14151 +3 presentation
Pastkaz: maps/tours/view/14255 +3 presentation
Anderson: maps/tours/view/14297 +3 presentation
Arnorius: maps/tours/view/14500 +3 presentation
IamCeeKae: maps/tours/view/14606
Xander66: maps/tours/view/14477 +3 presentation
Jadmeal: maps/tours/view/14198 +3 presentation
Brumdog66: maps/tours/view/14324 +3 presentation
M0rcuera94: maps/tours/view/14518
Miguelblancococho: maps/tours/view/14266
Joostvandebeek: maps/tours/view/14468
Taaramae_Crack: maps/tours/view/14573 +3 presentation

If i forgot your route, send me a PM
Software Engineer, Cycling Fanatic

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TourDeFranceGO
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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by TourDeFranceGO »

5.) Smoking Puppy

Positives - I thought the route was interesting. There was variation and and variety in locations the race visited and the race profile.

Negatives - No intermediates although I wouldn't mark that down to harshly, and a very long transfer to Rome.

4.) ColduRosier

Positives - The transitions weren't too long, it wasn't repetitive and there wasn't over-usage of big climbs (e.g 20 HCs...)

Negatives - not really much to say, I just think those above 4th may have done more 'positives'.

3.) Benoit.Guillot

Positives - I love the final week, which in itself could turn the race upside down, especially the 40km TT on the penultimate stage. Most other things are also done really well.

Negatives - I would suggest going over maybe 1 or 2 harder climbs, even if they aren't the focus of the race they might thin out the bunch a little. You don't want too many so as the race becomes boring but if there aren't enough harder climbs the race might not be as selective. Alternatively, you could view it otherwise, that it will force the riders to be more aggressive and to take more risks which might make the race more exciting.

2.) JoostvandeBeek

Positives - There is plenty of terrain variation, the transitions are realistic, everything is done very well however #1 just beat you..

Negatives - again not much to say like #4. I just in the end preferred #1 (it was a tough call.)

1.) Taaramae_crack

Positives - The race is overall very interesting, with lots of variation and exciting stages. transitions work and I love that you have put time into the descriptions explaining choices and almost replicating the feeling of reading through Prudhomme's description of each TDF stage.

Negatives - my only criticism would be that you may have used too much climbing. Big tough climbs and interesting stages are great but if there are too many it could dull the action. I don't think you've really over done it in general, but it is definitely something I've struggled with (ahem not 3 mountain stages in a row with 2+ HC climbs??? - no i didn't put the Mortirolo, Tre Cime di Lavaredo and the Zoncolan in a row!!)

This was very tough to decide. Each tour has something different and interesting. Had great fun going through all of these :)

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davandluz
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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by davandluz »

Hello all,
I considered firstly and foremost the feasibility of the tour: plausible Grand Departure, cities visited, feasibility of transfers and, most importantly, good balancing between the three organizers, reason for which I had to exclude many entries I liked: every country needs to have its jewel stages, otherwise they would not agree to co-organizing. A crucial point is the France bit: having obtained the last stage and the final celebration, the other organizers would not let ASO organize the decisive stages, too. In these criteria were met, I looked at the stages and the route in general.

There were a lot of entries I liked, so I had be very critical.

1st kanon16
My favorite tour. Good balancing between RCS, ASO and Unipublic for key stages, feasible transfers (there is only one 4h30 transfer, but, being in a rest day, it's doable); I particularly like the idea of passing through the great part of the different countries, going to all three capitals, and without sacrificing spectacularity. Three ITT may be too many, and I like the decisive stage to be a mountain stage rather than a time trial, but I guess it's a matter of taste.

2nd Piet_Agoras
Nice tour with some of the best designed stages in my opinion, nice weekends and good distribution of stages amongst organizers. The Lagos de Covadonga and Valberg stages are definitely NOT medium mountain ahaha, but it's not a criticism, they work well. Some transfers are a bit too long (as from Palencia to Leon and especially from San Sebastian to Oleron-Sainte-Marie: a 2h+ bus transfer is nothing that has not been seen in actual Grand Tours but... not the night before the Tourmalet!). I also don't love the Montepulciano stage in the last week, I find it overkill. In terms of time trials, I really like the Béziers - Sète ITT, on the other hand personally I would have followed another route in the Roma ITT.

3rd ellvey
Nice tour generally speaking, not conviced by the start in Portugal though. Very feasible transfers, too. Only things are the the three ITT and the lack of important cities involved - Paris excluded of course: the 15th stage could've seen a really nice finish in Turin after the Superga climb, for example. The Tirano stage would've been a nicer ending than the Mendrisio one (from Tirano to Milano-Linate airport it's a 2 hours drive... doable considering that the last stage is meaningless for GC).

4th Carlo33
I really like this tour, it follows a nice route covering many important cities and it has some good ideas (as the Nice segment). My main concern are transfers in two stages: from Angliru to Laredo (which to be fair is still doable, given that the Angliru it is followed by a flat stage), but most importantly from Saint-Martin Vesubie to Cuneo, given the Pian del Re stage on the next day. Also, only 34 km of time trials seem quite too little.

5th Jekp
Good and balanced tour between countries, could see it working. Nice Grand Departure, feasible transfers. I really don't like the third weekend though, with two flat stages. The fact that too many stages are a bit extreem in their D+ per mileage ratio (take the Os de Civis stage, for example) is another critical point.

I hope you are all handling the lockdown well!

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antoninvds
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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by antoninvds »

Hi ! There is my voting for this contest !

I tried to keep in mind all rules edited by LFR staff and to avoid routes including too much D+ on single stages (often some contenders draw more than 6000m-stages in third week, I think it is too much), routes including flat stages and chronos on weekends, those taking highway to make transition stages, and people explaining us what has to be a Grand Tour. Some of you named start or arrive cities with names which do not exist anymore because of building new townships (like Annecy or La Plagne-Tarentaise in France).

Every route had something to show and to claim, congratulations to all of you ! My choice is oriented by what I like to see in cycling : attacking, breakaways and a new leader everyday :

5th. Benoit_guillot
I think you are a subscriber to my 5th place in contests on this forum. Your route is interesting with a great finish in Alpe du Grand Serre, but something is missing, like one or two more hard climbs (Parquetout is not too far away...). I'll say it again : you can do even better !
Just be careful to not place flat stage on a sunday, even if it finishes in a big city like Lyon. Nevertheless, using Bern and Switzerland was a good idea.

4th. JoostvandeBeek
Your route is really well balanced, with three real stages in Pyrenees, that's fine to see because this mountain is often sacrified. Otherwise, I think you don't use France a its maximum possibilities for a week. Good job however !

3rd. Kanon16
Great job guy ! This is really well balanced with nice arrives : Port de Larrau is such a good idea and showing Serre-Ponçon Dam is something new : I really like it. I guess leader can change everyday, especially during your 7 last days which are absolutely monstrous ! A transition stage there could have been safer.

2nd. Piet_Agoras
What a route ! With few more details, you were my first choice ! I like the idea of going to Madrid and Rome either, the arrive in Mourtis Station is really nice, like the Mediterranean ITT.
What probably cost you my first place is your stage classification : Covadonga and Valberg are absolutely not medium mountain ! Nevertheless, it is a great route !

1st. Taaramae_crack
You are my champion ! Really well-balanced, everything could change everyday, it is quite impossible to control this route. This is what I like ! Like in my second choice, the coast ITT is a really good idea and everything is done to have a great show.
Aumar Lake arrive could however be difficult to organise because of the IUCN status : the lake is part of Néouvielle Natural Reserve, but it is invisible in OSM, it is not too serious.
Congratulations !

It was a pleasure to do this context, so see you in the next one !

Antonin :beer:

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emmea90
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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by emmea90 »

Xander66 route was missing: maps/tours/view/14477

Added in 1st post.

If TourDeFranceGO , davandluz, antoninvds want to put in in their top 5, please do a new post after this message (i'll delete the old one after)
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Piet_Agoras
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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by Piet_Agoras »

As I thought the rules about the transfers, key stages in weekends and stagedistributions and keeping the 3 organisers happy were quite difficult, my consideration will go firstly to routes that followed those quite well. After that, I looked more into detail for the routes that were left.
So starting with 35 (as i can obviously not vote for myself :D ) after consideration of the transfers for me only 20 were left with transfers of 2h max.
After checking the "keystages in weekends"-rule there were still 6 routes in the running. A lot of you had flat stages in weekends. And that was, in my opinion to be avoided at all costs.
As the last criterion to get to 5, i looked at the organiser satisfaction. And that is were one, with a Grand Depart outside one of the 3 countries was dropped. If every organiser only had one week, they would surely have the Grand depart in their country. The commercial value is to big.
FIFTH PLACE davandluz
Starting with a mediumflat on sunday almost eliminated it, but it was deliberated. The route changes a lot of terraintypes quickly, and I like that. However, too few TT km's for my liking.

FOURTH PLACE MiguelBlancoCocho
I love that not all ASO-stages are in the middle of the GT. But with 3ITT's and a TTT it might favour those riders too much as there isn't that much climbing.

THIRD PLACE JoostvandeBeek
Nice mountainstages, keeping away from the more traditional, cliché, passes and finishes. With a longer ITT to balance it out, you might have won.

SECOND PLACE JAdmeal
Nice switching between the different organisers, no big transfers an a good balance. Monstrous last mountainstage. Could have been a winner. But there can only be one.

FIRST PLACE Improb
Very well balanced GT. I also love the added value you gave with the Unesco-sites. That secured you the first place. A lot of climbing, but with 70km ITT it will give the TT-types a decent chance.

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Carlo33
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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by Carlo33 »

5) Jekp
I really like this Grand Tour because of the first 10/15 stages, which are really nervous, so cyclist have to stay ready since the beginning. However, the end is not on the same level, so i think we could have a boring end.

4) PaoloAgb
I like this tour because it is very balanced, with a lot of High Mountain stages in the last part. Furthermore, every finish is near from the start of the next stage, so there are no big transfers. There are 2 things I didn't like: only a too little part of Italy is travelled and the second ITT is too much long but, overall, I like this.

3) Benoit.Guillot
What I most liked about this tour was that a lot of zones around 4 countries in Europe were travelled without having big transfers.The ITT are very good made, even if, on my point of view, I wouldn't want to see an ITT on the last saturday. This is a really good made Tour but, honestly, the first two of my ranking were on a different level.

2) Kanon16
This Tour is great, with a lot of high mountain stages with not very known climbs. It's also real balanced, with a real equilibrium of flat, medium mountain and high mountain stages. Moreover, there aren't big transfers in this Tour. There was only one thing I don't like: the 20th stage. This is for 2 reasons: 1) I don't love ITT on the last saturday, like for the tour of Benoit; 2) I would prefer to have 2 and not 3 ITT stages. But this is really really good, so I have to put this on the podium.

1) Taaramae_Crack
This Tour is simply complete and the best for the me. In particular, the first part of the Tour, which is based in Spain, is perfect and my favourite. The presentation of the Tour was also really interesting to read: it seemed it was a real race organised by ASO, RCS or Unipublic. Nothing really negative to say, chapeau.

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SmokingPuppy841
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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by SmokingPuppy841 »

Since most of the routes are really good (I had a shortlist of 18) my nitpicks are the tiny things which could be done to improve them in my opinion. Everything is perfect but for what I pointed out as feedback.

5) Arnorius
To many Time Trials for my liking.

4) AjochiChakrobarti
Again, I would've preferred it with one less Time Trial.

3) Diego12Alpe
The only thing I'd like would be a MTF in Week 2, but other than it's perfect.

2) Brumdog66
I love the route, but the only reason it isn't #1 is that the last major GC shake-up will probably be a Time Trial.

1) nieky
I've got nothing which I'd like to see changed...the best route in my opinion!

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Arnorius
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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by Arnorius »

Uhm I have a small question to those who already voted.

Because of a small mistake emmea made the link of my tour doesn't work, and it was only opened 6 times (I think mostly by myself even). So if you guys didn't open my tour did you even open the others?
(By the way I don't say this just because it's my tour I made the same comment on last contest too :s)

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Brumdog66
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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by Brumdog66 »

I would just like to say that I am a very harsh judge and am aware my own tour has many flaws as well.

5) Mike2496
Really interesting first week and well balanced between TT's and mountain stages. Thought the hard climbs were generally the last ones and more long-range attacking oppurtunities could have been provided though. The last mountain stage is a good example of this but its the only one imo.
4) Jadmeal
Thought the main GC relevant stages were great, the last two mountain blocks in particular. The first TT and the first week were good as well and I think the route is generally well balanced and exciting. However, the first mountain weekend was a bit ambitious in terms of attacking oppurtunities, as there will be very little gaps by the time they are reached, and the hardest climbs are a bit too far from the finish that early in the race. Also I think only 6 genuine flat stages is too few for a grand tour.
3) Improb
The final mountain stage is my probably my favourite stage of the lot and the first week has a very interesting variety of stages. Although I think that the most exciting stages are those where the hardest climbs are further away from the finish to provide attacks, I think you have taken this a bit too far, and there should be a bit more balance between those and stages where the last climb is the hardest.
2) Taaramae_crack
The last two mountain blocks were great and should combine with the time trials to set up a fascinating race. Again I think 6 is too few flat stages and I would also say the first mountain weekend lacks a bit of bite. Similar to Improb there is only one mountain stages where the last climb is the hardest as well.
1) Ellvey
For me this tour is almost perfect, with the double mountain stages following my personal forumula of a stage with a tough last climb following by a more long-range attack-minded stage. My only quibble would be that having a 3 nation grand tour starting in Portugal is very unfair on Spain.

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davandluz
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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by davandluz »

Arnorius wrote:
28/04/2020, 18:42
Uhm I have a small question to those who already voted.

Because of a small mistake emmea made the link of my tour doesn't work, and it was only opened 6 times (I think mostly by myself even). So if you guys didn't open my tour did you even open the others?
(By the way I don't say this just because it's my tour I made the same comment on last contest too :s)
I honestly had already decided before the link was shared, I shortlisted 9 tours and got my final 5 defined yesterday evening. Quarantine got me quite into this ahaha
Last edited by davandluz on 29/04/2020, 10:25, edited 1 time in total.

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SmokingPuppy841
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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by SmokingPuppy841 »

Arnorius wrote:
28/04/2020, 18:42
Uhm I have a small question to those who already voted.

Because of a small mistake emmea made the link of my tour doesn't work, and it was only opened 6 times (I think mostly by myself even). So if you guys didn't open my tour did you even open the others?
(By the way I don't say this just because it's my tour I made the same comment on last contest too :s)
If you post the profiles on the entry thread, then people may have just viewed those instead.

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benoît.guillot
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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by benoît.guillot »

One more time, the choice war difficult to make. I tried to let my emotions speak when I first saw the planimetry of each tour, then dig into the stages to elaborate my top 5. So here it is.


5th place : Pincoletto

Your route seems pretty cool to me, well balanced and everything but I don't like the idea of taking the great start in France, where the big finish is already placed.


4th place : Pabloagb

One more beautiful route. Lots of you guys seems to prefer Spain to Italy for the big start ahaha. I Love the idea of the start in front of La Sagrada Familia. But I think you forgot the French Alps and that's a no go for me.


3rd place : Improb

I Love your ideas. But I think you made some wrong choices. Your big stages in Fenestrelle can't be organized with a final lap. Leaders of the days and gruppetto will certainly chase themselves and that's not possible. Anyway, I want you to be in the podium because of your ideas !


2nd place : jibvalverde

I don't think of anything wrong when I look at your tour. But somehow, something is bothering me. I think I like when risks are taken and your route (even if it's beautiful and weel drawn !) doesn't take enough risks for me or doesn't bring us to roads we ignore, to discover places we wanted to show the world. You made it in second place cause your route is one of the two I want to watch for stage 1 to stage 21. Great work.


1st place : Mauro

Your route has some problems like the transfert but, I do think you justify it. You're the only one (except for me) that uses Besançon and you're the very single one to uses Vosges. And you did it perfectly. For sure, your route is the one that make me feel like I want to watch it, stages by stages, everyday in september. Please, find a job at ASO.

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improb
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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by improb »

benoît.guillot wrote:
01/05/2020, 13:55
One more time, the choice war difficult to make. I tried to let my emotions speak when I first saw the planimetry of each tour, then dig into the stages to elaborate my top 5. So here it is.


5th place : Pincoletto

Your route seems pretty cool to me, well balanced and everything but I don't like the idea of taking the great start in France, where the big finish is already placed.


4th place : Pabloagb

One more beautiful route. Lots of you guys seems to prefer Spain to Italy for the big start ahaha. I Love the idea of the start in front of La Sagrada Familia. But I think you forgot the French Alps and that's a no go for me.


3rd place : Improb

I Love your ideas. But I think you made some wrong choices. Your big stages in Fenestrelle can't be organized with a final lap. Leaders of the days and gruppetto will certainly chase themselves and that's not possible. Anyway, I want you to be in the podium because of your ideas !


2nd place : jibvalverde

I don't think of anything wrong when I look at your tour. But somehow, something is bothering me. I think I like when risks are taken and your route (even if it's beautiful and weel drawn !) doesn't take enough risks for me or doesn't bring us to roads we ignore, to discover places we wanted to show the world. You made it in second place cause your route is one of the two I want to watch for stage 1 to stage 21. Great work.


1st place : Mauro

Your route has some problems like the transfert but, I do think you justify it. You're the only one (except for me) that uses Besançon and you're the very single one to uses Vosges. And you did it perfectly. For sure, your route is the one that make me feel like I want to watch it, stages by stages, everyday in september. Please, find a job at ASO.
Colle Agnelli (whose real name I still haven't discovered and which I've named after the sanatorium below the top) is a 26/28 minutes climb, the descent and the false flat in the 26,7 Kms circuit take another 20 minutes due to the descent being technical. I think 45/48 minutes is a good time cut for such a shortish stage but I guess it'd be a bit hard to organize everything well, even if RCS has pulled off much harder things.

Thanks for the input! :beer:

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benoît.guillot
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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by benoît.guillot »

improb wrote:
05/05/2020, 0:28
benoît.guillot wrote:
01/05/2020, 13:55
One more time, the choice war difficult to make. I tried to let my emotions speak when I first saw the planimetry of each tour, then dig into the stages to elaborate my top 5. So here it is.


5th place : Pincoletto

Your route seems pretty cool to me, well balanced and everything but I don't like the idea of taking the great start in France, where the big finish is already placed.


4th place : Pabloagb

One more beautiful route. Lots of you guys seems to prefer Spain to Italy for the big start ahaha. I Love the idea of the start in front of La Sagrada Familia. But I think you forgot the French Alps and that's a no go for me.


3rd place : Improb

I Love your ideas. But I think you made some wrong choices. Your big stages in Fenestrelle can't be organized with a final lap. Leaders of the days and gruppetto will certainly chase themselves and that's not possible. Anyway, I want you to be in the podium because of your ideas !


2nd place : jibvalverde

I don't think of anything wrong when I look at your tour. But somehow, something is bothering me. I think I like when risks are taken and your route (even if it's beautiful and weel drawn !) doesn't take enough risks for me or doesn't bring us to roads we ignore, to discover places we wanted to show the world. You made it in second place cause your route is one of the two I want to watch for stage 1 to stage 21. Great work.


1st place : Mauro

Your route has some problems like the transfert but, I do think you justify it. You're the only one (except for me) that uses Besançon and you're the very single one to uses Vosges. And you did it perfectly. For sure, your route is the one that make me feel like I want to watch it, stages by stages, everyday in september. Please, find a job at ASO.
Colle Agnelli (whose real name I still haven't discovered and which I've named after the sanatorium below the top) is a 26/28 minutes climb, the descent and the false flat in the 26,7 Kms circuit take another 20 minutes due to the descent being technical. I think 45/48 minutes is a good time cut for such a shortish stage but I guess it'd be a bit hard to organize everything well, even if RCS has pulled off much harder things.

Thanks for the input! :beer:
That's a very good argumentation ! Still, congrats on your tour !

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kanon16
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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by kanon16 »

Hard to judge with so many candidates.. I did a short list of 10 before and these are the best 5:

FIFTH PLACE: Brumdog66
Nice path, drawn with balance and so many good ideas. In particular I like the Ales MM stage, the HM stage in Valle d'Aosta, the Abetone and the Blockhaus stage!
In my opinion the altimetries could be more detailed and I'm not convince of the second ITT that maybe is too long, being the penultimate decisive day.

FORTH PLACE: Mike2496
Congratulations because your presentation was super! Very nice Tour! Beautiful the Prologue in Mallorca, the 5°with the white roads and the HM stages in second week (Champoluc is fantastic!). Also the Sondrio-Aprica is really thrilling! I think some arrivals are logistically difficult: Soller, Annecy (You maybe could find better solutions) and also Piani dell'Avaro..I don't like so much the idea of a downhill arrival after Mont Ventoux but It is a matter of taste!

THIRD PLACE: Pincoletto
I struggled to put the first three tours in order because they were all fantastic. Very beautiful ideas: stages N.3 and 4! The two decisive stages in the second week (only I would have considerd Passo San Marco and Monte Padrio HC climbs..), the ITT in Casale Monferrato and the great stage ending on Piccolo San Bernardo.
I think however that the last week is too much hard (47 Km ITT and 3 super HM stages in a row..)

SECOND PLACE: Ellvey
Very nice Tour and very well balanced! Fisterra is beautiful, the first HM stage to Alto Campoo is super, the 9° stage is a real tappone (196 Km!).
I like very much also the last demanding stage of Mendrisio!..You could maybe put an uphill finish in the last week and one less in the first week, just to have a more spectacular arrival location in the last stages..

FIRST PLACE: Joostvandebeek
Very little to say about this Tour, wonderful! Many beautiful stages: 2, 3, 5 (the hills around Elizondo!), 7, 8! I only don't like the Arinsla stage in Andorra (N.9) beacuse I think that three HM stages in a row in the first week unbalance the run too much.. The second week is rightly lighter and in the third week the last three HM stages are very well balanced! Susa-Moutiers is really perfect to revolutionize the ranking just in the end! What about Paris-stage with nine 4°cat. climbs?...are you a Peter Sagan fan? :asd:

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ellvey
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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by ellvey »

First i have to congratulate every single one of you or taking the time to create some interesting stages and tours, so i had to really be quite picky in order to decide my top 5, it really gave me an headache with so many Proposals to review ahah.

5th Place: Carlo33

You designed some great stages, i liked a lot of them and i'm particularly fond of the Merano stage. But the problem is that, while individually they are great, when i look at the tour as a whole, the structure imo isn't great and some combination of stages would work better if they switched places, for example, switching the Cauterets stage with the Tourmalet stage. I also think that you should have designed either longer TT's or adding an extra TT stage. As a positive, i believe you satisfied the desires of every organizer. It's a tour that's far from perfect, but i think it has good potential with some changes made, and also i wanted to give you a place in my fantastic five thanks to some of your stage designs.

4th Place: mike4296

You designed great stages, such as Laner alm, Monte Corno and Champoluc stages, some of my favourite, with a good tour structure concept too, and I really appreciate your choice to start in the Baleares, but maybe 85kms of TT is too much. But the big con imo is the fact that that you stacked almost of the important stages in Italy, 5 mountains stages designed by RCS out of a total of 7 is way too much, while there's none organized by Unipublic, and it's not like you avoided mountanous regions in Spain, with very little change to your Tour you could have designed mountain stages with finishes in either Obs. Astrofisico de Javalambre or at Valdelinares close to Teruel, or even use the unknown climb of Pico de la Nevera around Calatayud.

3rd Place: improb

I really liked your idea behind your Tour, very original and very interesting, i really appreciate your choice of including a stage finish at Las Medulas, stunning place (i'm not sure that there is enough space at the top to host a finish, but i'm really happy just to see it included xD). You designed a great tour, clearly to encourage the riders to break the race early, and following for the most part my own concept ideas. Also i'd like to single out 2 of your stages, Sacro Monte di Belmonte and Bergamo, the first is a masterpiece, and I tried to include in my own tour a version of the second, but i couldn't make it work, and sadly i had to scrap it. You managed not only to make it work, but to create an awesome stage to end the tour, congrats! I also liked your idea to include a gravel stage in Spain! My big con is that i personally don't like a TT that long, i prefer if you'd have 2 shorter ones instead.

2nd Place: taaramae_crack
I'd like to congratulate you on the amazing work you managed to pull of, this is an awesome tour and it was a pleasure to see it. You designed some great and innovative stages, frankly it's almost criminal how Pico Villuercas hasn't been yet used by the Vuelta, so i'm really happy to see it included, just like i'm happy to see a stage finish in the stunning Pradera de Ordesa. Great mountain stages, most of the can allow riders to break the race apart early if they choose to do so and as you intended, very interesting mid mountain, that can allow GC shake ups. And even if Lac d'Aumar is not a realistic finish there are more than enough alternatives nearby, like Col de Portet, Piau Engaly, etc. I just don't really like 2 things, you could have used at least 1 more flat stage, poor sprinters deserve a small reward for such suffering endured ahah, and i'm not really much of a fan of flat TT's that long. Alas you could easily be my first pick, it was a very tough choice.

1st Place: Brumdog66
And my Winner is... Brumdog66 Whoohoo xD. You managed to create a very well balanced tour, imo the best of all the proposals, and some great stages. I really liked your inclusion of Coll de Bracons, no one should underestimate that stage. The structure is also great, like you said we basically followed the same concept xD And i really appreciate your well executed choice of using the Appeninnes as thes last mountain block, insted of the alps like most of us who decided to finish in Italy did. While your last stage could be improved, thanks to the transfers i think that is the best one that you were allowed to design. Still I believe it works well. There are not really any negatives from my point of view, maybe only the use of Col de Turini far from the finish before a stage with a tough MTF and maybe the need to have a slighty harder stage than the Rat Peñat one, so that Unipublic could have a bit more protagonism, but a flat TT earlier saves it a little

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IamCeeKae
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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by IamCeeKae »

5th Place - Jekp
There is some nice variety in stages for each organizer to pick from. They all have stages of approximately equal difficulty, and the most important stages are equally distributed among the organizers. There should’ve been some more key stages during the weekends, although despite that, most people instead get to see more varying stages during their days off. The first weekend is primarily hilly, the second flat, and the third mountainous and with a time trial. It works out even when it wasn’t intended. The stage to Ermita de Alba is a very intriguing final stage, with a solid end performance on top of the last climb and finish before the Champs-Élysees.

4th Place - Pontix
This stage race shows good consistency in its patterning of stages. Although the Spanish organizer might protest against the lack of high mountain stages they’re allowed to organize, there’s a lot of balance between the three organizers and their stages overall. On a related note, the average viewer of the grand tour might be a bit unsatisfied, given the lack of truly exciting high mountain ‘queen’ stages in the weekends. The first weekend still shows that it’s possible, but after that, and especially in the last week, the weekends might come across as lacking. Despite that argument, the profiles of the stages that have been made, whatever date they might be ridden on, are definitely attractive for spectators to watch. There’s a nice variation in mountain top finishes and flat mountain finishes. Having more mountains in the last weekend might have been more appealing, but even as they appear in the middle of the tour, they’re can count on the long run.

3rd Place - kanon16
Neatly organized stage. There are some very intriguing routes and the stages that look most attractive in profile and route tend to be during the weekends, or on wednesdays, when under the assumption that the grand tour starts on a sunday and the rest days are fit in that scheme. There’s a nice variety in stages, both in their difficulty and whether they’re mountainous or not. The stages are arranged throughout the entire tour, meaning that there isn’t a single week with only climbing on the agenda. I do have some problems however, with the tour satisfaction among the three organizers. The RCS would be very satisfied with the variety of stages they’re allowed to offer the riders, but the ASO tends to only organize flat or hilly stages, barring one very long mountain stage. Unipublic, on the other hand, tends to only organize hilly and mountainous stages. Overall however, overlooking these comparisons between organizers, a really neat job has been done creating the grand tour. The stages all seem to have their own use, there’s an equal chance among riders (though time trial cyclists do have a bit of an advantage), and this tour shows that it’s not always necessary to include very large and high mountain climbs to make it more appealing.

2nd Place - Pincoletto
This grand tour is very long. Ideally, I always keep a grand tour at a length of approximately 3300 kilometers, yet this one only lies 40 kilometers below the maximum threshold of 3500. This length pays off despite that. It is allowed, so no further complaints, and good use has been made of it. There are some very intriguing stages, even flat ones, that hold value when it comes to GC races or just very exciting finishes of the stages. All organizers should be very satisfied with what they’re allowed to present of their country. A downpoint is that this tour sticks to coastlines a lot. Sometimes that could make for great stage finishes, but not too often. However, there’s a nice distribution in mountain stages, mountain difficulties, and a good variety in stage lengths. The first week holds the longest stages, whereas the last week holds the shortest. Great stage race overall, with very satisfying stages included.

1st Place - PaStKaz
The first thing that stands out when looking at the statistics on the map overview, is the sheer amount of flat stages this grand tour has; ten in total. Add two individual time trials to that, and it doesn’t leave much space for all that many medium or high mountain stages. However, good use has been made of any top finishes that might come up in the many flat stages this grand tour has. Whereas typically, nobody uses a top finish in a flat stage, in this grand tour, there are two to compensate for the lack of hilly and mountainous stages. There are some very impressive conclusions to several of the stages in this stage race. Furthermore, the map shows realistic travelling distances between stages, and it lets organizers organize all of their stages in one go, except for, logically so, the French ASO. Given that each organizer has got at least one mountain stage, and there are only five in total, the race satisfaction should be approximately equal among them. It makes for a grand tour that is very satisfying to look at profile-wise, and very exciting to watch, were it to be broadcasted.

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Diego12Alpe
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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by Diego12Alpe »

- FIFTH PLACE | antoninvds: Nice first week with similar stages like the ones in La Vuelta and good stages of more than 200km. The only thing I don't like in your second week is the stage number 11, it is very short. Honestly the only stage I like in your third week is the stage number 19, the others I think are good designed but are very short and I don't like an individual time trial before the last day.

- FOURTH PLACE | Arnorius: In your first week I think it's very early a mountain top finish in the second stage and I think your fourth stage is very short. Perfect second week with an individual time trial of more than 30km and three stages with more than 200km. Good third week but I would like to see a stage of more than 200km instead of another individual time trial.

- THIRD PLACE | jajoejoe: Good first week but I would like to see one more stage for sprinters and the Colla Micheri stage a little bit longer. In the second week I like the long individual time trial and the mountain stages of the weekend. I like your third week but I would like to see some stages with more than 200km.

- SECOND PLACE | Pincoletto: Good first week with stages for all type of riders, but I don't like the nineth stage with 116km. Your second week is perfect. I don't usually like individual time trials in last week but this one before the mountain stages could be good for the race; I like the mountain stages but I would like to see at least one stage with more than 200km.

- FIRST PLACE | taaramae_crack: Maybe one more flat stage in the first week will be good. Nice second week. Good third week with all type of mountain stages.

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Re: Contest #3 - Grand Tour of the Grand Tours - VOTING

Post by jibvalverde »

FIFTH PLACE - mike4296

On paper, most of your stages are nicely traced and could offer a maximum of spectacle. Only, there is a big imbalance with 6 high mountain stages in the second half against 1 in the first. A bit of a shame.

FOURTH PLACE - Xander66

A clean Tour, without obvious fault and which respects the instructions. Unfortunately not a fan of most of your major ascents used, with the exception of Pico Blanco.

THIRD PLACE - JoostvandeBeek

A Tour probably far too mountainous but honestly very well laid out with very tempting stages, like Moutiers. Two regrets: not having taken the direct and difficult side of the Colle del Lys and, above all, the passage over the gravels of the Col de Tende, which is impossible.

SECOND PLACE - Pincoletto

Hard choice than to leave from France, to make the three final stages there while passing from Spain to Italy without big transfer. You do it brilliantly, without going over the kms. I really like your alpine triptych, even if I would have simplified the last one in Madeleine-Glandon-Alpe.

FIRST PLACE - ColduRosier

An almost perfect Tour. You have not necessarily done in the originality but it is clean, with the transfer instructions perfectly respected. Nothing to say, except the arrival at Hautacam the day before arrival. I would have preferred a toboggan stage. Otherwise, it's top. Well done.

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