Facebook login is not available anymore due to Facebook policy. If you need access to your old account send a mail with username and your actual mail.

IMPORTANT: Routing and Elevation API are limited to 7000 calls per day. In case they are expired, they won't work until limit is re-charged. You can try in this case to do a GPX on RideWithGPS site and import it on the editor

Please don't spam us mail and PMs that we won't answer and notice that the official language of forum is English.

Roadbooks: LINK

Comment with us the races in the discussion thread or in the Telegram Chat

2021 Season Contests
Contest #3: Improved Spring Classic
Contest #4: Giro d'Italia

Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Compete in the contests and become the best stagemaker!
User avatar
emmea90
Vicedirettore Sportivo di terza divisione
Vicedirettore Sportivo di terza divisione
Posts: 798
Joined: 17/05/2011, 15:47
Location: Milano
Contact:

Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by emmea90 »

Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics

3rd contest of the season, and it's time for the Spring Classics

The contest will be similar, but different, to the 2018 one.

Your tasks are in fact not to reinvent the classic or move them in other area, but to give them an improvement of the actual route according to your interpretation for a better race quality considering the actual classic route.

The classics you shall improve are
  • Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
  • Kuurne-Bruxelles-Kuurne
  • Strade Bianche
  • Milano-Sanremo
  • E3 Harelbeke
  • Gent-Wevelgem
  • Ronde van Vlaanderen
  • Scheldeprijs
  • Paris-Roubaix
  • De Brabantse Pijl
  • Amstel Gold Race
  • La Fleche Wallonne
  • Liege Bastogne Liege
For each of these ones, you cannot change their race identity but you have to do a new route that suits it better according to you. Not be able to change the race identity means also that the start/finish town shall be preserved. Milan-Sanremo shall go from Milano to Sanremo, Roubaix shall end in Velodrome and can't go to Belgium, while races like Omloop and Ronde, instead, can move to historical start/finishes that they previous used (Gand, Merbeke or the historical start in Brugge for Ronde). Also, climbs/key points that are part of the race identity (example: Arenberg in Roubaix) shall be preserved. It's up to you to find out what they are.

In the presentation/description, please write what is, according to you, the actual flaw of the current route of the classic you decided to improve and why should be fixed with your new route. It's not mandatory to change all the classics, meaning that if a real route doesn't have any improvement margin, you can simply add it as it is to your list with this motivation.

Remember also to not change the KMs of the semiclassics (under 200 km).

The maps on the site will surely be useful for this contest
Climb map: maps/tracks/maps/2
Cobbles map: maps/tracks/maps/3
Strade bianche map: maps/tracks/maps/4

Deadline will be May 9, h 23.59

Please put ALL the routes under spoiler tag in this topic to not make it too long AND put all the classic in a single tour, listed in the order above. Thanks

From this contest, people using correctly spoiler tags will get +1 bonus to be added to the presentation to encourage this correct behavior.
Software Engineer, Cycling Fanatic
User avatar
Luna23
Spettatore
Posts: 12
Joined: 11/04/2020, 23:07

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by Luna23 »

I don't usually post the route images, just the links, do I have to put the images with a spoiler tag?
Swiss cycling fanatic
User avatar
emmea90
Vicedirettore Sportivo di terza divisione
Vicedirettore Sportivo di terza divisione
Posts: 798
Joined: 17/05/2011, 15:47
Location: Milano
Contact:

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by emmea90 »

Luna23 wrote: 14/04/2021, 20:09 I don't usually post the route images, just the links, do I have to put the images with a spoiler tag?
Put the link as the only thing out of the spoiler

------------------------------------

Link: [Link]
Spoiler!
All the presentation
Software Engineer, Cycling Fanatic
User avatar
Luna23
Spettatore
Posts: 12
Joined: 11/04/2020, 23:07

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by Luna23 »

emmea90 wrote: 14/04/2021, 20:18
Luna23 wrote: 14/04/2021, 20:09 I don't usually post the route images, just the links, do I have to put the images with a spoiler tag?
Put the link as the only thing out of the spoiler

------------------------------------

Link: [Link]
Spoiler!
All the presentation
Ah, well expect me to struggle to make a good route.
Swiss cycling fanatic
User avatar
mauro
Allievo
Allievo
Posts: 182
Joined: 05/03/2015, 16:48

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by mauro »

By designing the Amstel, is it possible to predict the departure and arrival in Holland and the encroachment in Belgium and Germany?
User avatar
emmea90
Vicedirettore Sportivo di terza divisione
Vicedirettore Sportivo di terza divisione
Posts: 798
Joined: 17/05/2011, 15:47
Location: Milano
Contact:

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by emmea90 »

mauro wrote: 16/04/2021, 21:07 By designing the Amstel, is it possible to predict the departure and arrival in Holland and the encroachment in Belgium and Germany?
Only a few part of the races, core shall be Dutch Ardennes. Even the real Amstel does a turn to germany, but it''s a small one.
Software Engineer, Cycling Fanatic
User avatar
JoostvandeBeek
Spettatore
Posts: 21
Joined: 24/08/2016, 9:34
Location: Eindhoven

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by JoostvandeBeek »

emmea90 wrote: 17/04/2021, 9:52
mauro wrote: 16/04/2021, 21:07 By designing the Amstel, is it possible to predict the departure and arrival in Holland and the encroachment in Belgium and Germany?
Only a few part of the races, core shall be Dutch Ardennes. Even the real Amstel does a turn to germany, but it''s a small one.
As far as I know the Amstel never went to Germany, they did have a final loop in Belgium in the 1990's, but nowadays they only cross the border with Belgium to go over the Vaalserberg/Drielandenpunt and then immediately turn back into the Netherlands
User avatar
jajoejoe
Appassionato
Appassionato
Posts: 56
Joined: 13/01/2019, 18:56
Contact:

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by jajoejoe »

JoostvandeBeek wrote: 17/04/2021, 13:37
emmea90 wrote: 17/04/2021, 9:52
mauro wrote: 16/04/2021, 21:07 By designing the Amstel, is it possible to predict the departure and arrival in Holland and the encroachment in Belgium and Germany?
Only a few part of the races, core shall be Dutch Ardennes. Even the real Amstel does a turn to germany, but it''s a small one.
As far as I know the Amstel never went to Germany, they did have a final loop in Belgium in the 1990's, but nowadays they only cross the border with Belgium to go over the Vaalserberg/Drielandenpunt and then immediately turn back into the Netherlands
Yes back in the day when they finished in Maastricht the finale was west of Maastricht in Belgium, on edition due to a illness dangerous to animals they skipped that part and it never returned. Also good because the climbs there aren't nice...
User avatar
benoît.guillot
Appassionato
Appassionato
Posts: 68
Joined: 26/09/2017, 14:37

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by benoît.guillot »

emmea90 wrote: 14/04/2021, 10:23 For each of these ones, you cannot change their race identity but you have to do a new route that suits it better according to you. Not be able to change the race identity means also that the start/finish town shall be preserved. Milan-Sanremo shall go from Milano to Sanremo, Roubaix shall end in Velodrome and can't go to Belgium, while races like Omloop and Ronde, instead, can move to historical start/finishes that they previous used (Gand, Merbeke or the historical start in Brugge for Ronde). Also, climbs/key points that are part of the race identity (example: Arenberg in Roubaix) shall be preserved. It's up to you to find out what they are.
Can we accept small changes of starting town ? For example Soissons for Paris-Roubaix and PAvia for Milano - San Remo. Long races are hard to change without adding several irrealist kilometers (for example, to add cappi at the end of Milano - Sa, Remo, you must change the starting city or draw a race above 315km wich is totally irrealistic, especially in our times where cycling try to "humanize" itself by cutting down extra-long races).

Are you agree to change that rule if the contestant explicitely explain the change in his vision of the race ?
User avatar
emmea90
Vicedirettore Sportivo di terza divisione
Vicedirettore Sportivo di terza divisione
Posts: 798
Joined: 17/05/2011, 15:47
Location: Milano
Contact:

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by emmea90 »

benoît.guillot wrote: 19/04/2021, 16:46
emmea90 wrote: 14/04/2021, 10:23 For each of these ones, you cannot change their race identity but you have to do a new route that suits it better according to you. Not be able to change the race identity means also that the start/finish town shall be preserved. Milan-Sanremo shall go from Milano to Sanremo, Roubaix shall end in Velodrome and can't go to Belgium, while races like Omloop and Ronde, instead, can move to historical start/finishes that they previous used (Gand, Merbeke or the historical start in Brugge for Ronde). Also, climbs/key points that are part of the race identity (example: Arenberg in Roubaix) shall be preserved. It's up to you to find out what they are.
Can we accept small changes of starting town ? For example Soissons for Paris-Roubaix and PAvia for Milano - San Remo. Long races are hard to change without adding several irrealist kilometers (for example, to add cappi at the end of Milano - Sa, Remo, you must change the starting city or draw a race above 315km wich is totally irrealistic, especially in our times where cycling try to "humanize" itself by cutting down extra-long races).

Are you agree to change that rule if the contestant explicitely explain the change in his vision of the race ?
A Milano-Sanremo started from Certosa di Pavia, that can so be used - but Milan will of course be better.

For Roubaix, Compiegne is part of the race identity.
Software Engineer, Cycling Fanatic
User avatar
benoît.guillot
Appassionato
Appassionato
Posts: 68
Joined: 26/09/2017, 14:37

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by benoît.guillot »

emmea90 wrote: 19/04/2021, 19:08
benoît.guillot wrote: 19/04/2021, 16:46
emmea90 wrote: 14/04/2021, 10:23 For each of these ones, you cannot change their race identity but you have to do a new route that suits it better according to you. Not be able to change the race identity means also that the start/finish town shall be preserved. Milan-Sanremo shall go from Milano to Sanremo, Roubaix shall end in Velodrome and can't go to Belgium, while races like Omloop and Ronde, instead, can move to historical start/finishes that they previous used (Gand, Merbeke or the historical start in Brugge for Ronde). Also, climbs/key points that are part of the race identity (example: Arenberg in Roubaix) shall be preserved. It's up to you to find out what they are.
Can we accept small changes of starting town ? For example Soissons for Paris-Roubaix and PAvia for Milano - San Remo. Long races are hard to change without adding several irrealist kilometers (for example, to add cappi at the end of Milano - Sa, Remo, you must change the starting city or draw a race above 315km wich is totally irrealistic, especially in our times where cycling try to "humanize" itself by cutting down extra-long races).

Are you agree to change that rule if the contestant explicitely explain the change in his vision of the race ?
A Milano-Sanremo started from Certosa di Pavia, that can so be used - but Milan will of course be better.

For Roubaix, Compiegne is part of the race identity.
Ok, I'm out of this contest. This is nearly impossible to be realistic and propose real changes for most of the Springsteen classic if we can change the starting city...

BTW Compiègne is the starting city only sincèrement 1970's. Before that, 4 cities hosted the start. I don't think any starting cities is written in the race identity, for any classic...
User avatar
mauro
Allievo
Allievo
Posts: 182
Joined: 05/03/2015, 16:48

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by mauro »

benoît.guillot wrote: 20/04/2021, 10:23
emmea90 wrote: 19/04/2021, 19:08
benoît.guillot wrote: 19/04/2021, 16:46

Can we accept small changes of starting town ? For example Soissons for Paris-Roubaix and PAvia for Milano - San Remo. Long races are hard to change without adding several irrealist kilometers (for example, to add cappi at the end of Milano - Sa, Remo, you must change the starting city or draw a race above 315km wich is totally irrealistic, especially in our times where cycling try to "humanize" itself by cutting down extra-long races).

Are you agree to change that rule if the contestant explicitely explain the change in his vision of the race ?
A Milano-Sanremo started from Certosa di Pavia, that can so be used - but Milan will of course be better.

For Roubaix, Compiegne is part of the race identity.
Ok, I'm out of this contest. This is nearly impossible to be realistic and propose real changes for most of the Springsteen classic if we can change the starting city...

BTW Compiègne is the starting city only sincèrement 1970's. Before that, 4 cities hosted the start. I don't think any starting cities is written in the race identity, for any classic...
Benoît, being able to modify the route of the Roubaix without giving up Compiègne is possible, indeed I have also managed to make the route harder and propose a mileage almost similar to that of 2019
User avatar
benoît.guillot
Appassionato
Appassionato
Posts: 68
Joined: 26/09/2017, 14:37

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by benoît.guillot »

mauro wrote: 20/04/2021, 11:26
benoît.guillot wrote: 20/04/2021, 10:23
emmea90 wrote: 19/04/2021, 19:08

A Milano-Sanremo started from Certosa di Pavia, that can so be used - but Milan will of course be better.

For Roubaix, Compiegne is part of the race identity.
Ok, I'm out of this contest. This is nearly impossible to be realistic and propose real changes for most of the Springsteen classic if we can change the starting city...

BTW Compiègne is the starting city only sincèrement 1970's. Before that, 4 cities hosted the start. I don't think any starting cities is written in the race identity, for any classic...
Benoît, being able to modify the route of the Roubaix without giving up Compiègne is possible, indeed I have also managed to make the route harder and propose a mileage almost similar to that of 2019
I know but I'm a bit disappointed. My Soissons-Roubaix was quite good...
User avatar
mauro
Allievo
Allievo
Posts: 182
Joined: 05/03/2015, 16:48

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by mauro »

Ecco le mie corse. Nota: personalmente non ho notato falle negli attuali percorsi (Sanremo a parte), ma ho voluto comunque provare ad introdurre novità in tutte le gare per cambiare un po’ il solito “sapore” e proporre ai corridori qualcosa di nuovo (se ci si assuefa troppo ad un percorso va a finire che, a lungo andare, le solite salite diventi sempre meno selettive, come capitato con la Sanremo)

Here are my runs. Note: i personally did not notice any flaws in the current routes (apart from Sanremo), but I still wanted to try to introduce new things in all the races to change the usual "flavor" a little and offer the riders something new (if you get used to it too much of a path ends up that, in the long run, the usual climbs become less and less selective, as happened with the Sanremo)

maps/tours/view/18494

Spoiler!

OMLOOP HET NIEUWSBLAD

Ho rimodellato il percorso sia nel tratto centrale, sia e soprattutto in quello finale introducendo alcuni settori di pavè e uno di sterrato nel tratto successivo al Bosberg. Sul grafico ho indicato solo i tratti di pavè e sterrato inseriti nel finale

I remodeled the route both in the central section and especially in the final one by introducing some sectors of cobblestones and a dirt road in the section following the Bosberg. On the altimetry I have indicated only the sections of cobblestones and dirt roads inserted in the final

maps/viewtrack/425095

Image

KUURNE-BRUXELLES-KUURNE

Questa corsa l’ho voluta riportare agli albori, quando effettivamente il percorso toccava Bruxelles. In questo modo ho dovuto rinunciare a molte delle salite che si affrontano nelle edizioni più recenti, ma ho concepito un tracciato non banale e che comunque favorisce anche i velocisti, che nel recente passato si sono imposti in diverse occasioni a Kuurne. Come nell’Omloop ho inserito alcuni tratti di pavè nel tratto finale.

I wanted to bring this race back to its origins, when the route actually touched Brussels. In this way I had to give up many of the climbs that are faced in the most recent editions, but I conceived a track that is not trivial and that in any case also favors the sprinters, who in the recent past have imposed themselves on several occasions in Kuurne. As in the Omloop, I have inserted some sections of cobblestones in the final section.

maps/viewtrack/425140

Image

STRADE BIANCHE

Ho inserito alcuni settori nuovi e uno di questi può rivaleggiare in durezza con quello di Monte Sante Marie: è quello di Vignoni Alto, che presenta un tratto in salita di 2.4 Km al 10.5% e prende il via da uno dei borghi più spettacolari delle Crete Senesi, Bagno Vignoni, famoso per la sua piazza quasi interamente occupata da una vasca di acqua termale calda. I settori nuovi sono indicati con “new”

I have included some new sectors and one of these can rival in hardness that of Monte Sante Marie: it is that of Vignoni Alto, which has an uphill stretch of 2.4 km at 10.5% and starts from one of the most spectacular villages of the Crete Senesi, Bagno Vignoni, famous for its square. lmost entirely occupied by a tub of hot thermal water. New sectors are indicated with "new"

maps/viewtrack/425160

Image

Image

MILANO-SANREMO

Personalmente sono da sempre favorevole all’inserimento di una nuova salita nel finale perché la Sanremo non deve essere solo una corsa per velocisti, considerato che in passato l’hanno vinta anche corridori che sprinter non sono come Bartali, Gimondi, Bugno e Chiappucci per esempio. Sulla Pompeiana pare ci sia ancora il veto della Prefettura, ma subito prima del Poggio ci sarebbe la salita di Bussana Vecchia. Nonostante questa mia considerazione, nel disegnare la mia Milano-Sanremo non ho voluto aggiungere nessuna salita ma adottare due piccole variazioni, due “pizzichi di sale” che non stravolgono il percorso ma potrebbero rendere gli esiti della corsa leggermente meno scontati. La prima modifica riguarda il versante d’ascesa alla Cipressa: arrivati a San Lorenzo al Mare anziché svoltare verso la Cipressa si continua sull’Aurelia per un chilometro per poi imboccare il nuovo versante, che è di poco più ripido della strada classica (4 Km al 5.6% vs 5.5 Km al 4.1%), presenta una pendenza media dell’8.2% nei primi due chilometri e un imbocco più stretto e selettivo (ma non pericoloso). L’ultima modifica riguarda l’arrivo, che ho spostato da Via Roma a Piazza Eroi Sanremesi, il luogo dove si concluse la tappa di Sanremo del Giro d’Italia del 2001: questa modifica allontana la cima del Poggio dal traguardo di circa 0.7 Km, ma introduce una rampa finale di 600 metri al 4%, in cima alla quale è posto il traguardo.

Personally I have always been in favor of inserting a new climb in the final because the Sanremo must not be just a race for sprinters, considering that in the past it was also won by runners who are not sprinters like Bartali, Gimondi, Bugno and Chiappucci for example. On Pompeiana it seems there is still the prohibition of the Prefecture, but immediately before the Poggio there would be the climb to Bussana Vecchia. Despite my consideration, in designing my Milan-Sanremo I did not want to add any climbs but to adopt two small variations, two "pinches of salt" that do not upset the course but could make the results of the race slightly less obvious. The first change concerns the slope of the ascent to the Cipressa: once in San Lorenzo al Mare, instead of turning towards the Cipressa, continue on the Aurelia for a kilometer and then take the new slope, which is slightly steeper than the classic road (4 km at 5.6% versus 5.5 Km at 4.1%), has an average gradient of 8.2% in the first two kilometers and a narrower and more selective (but not dangerous) entrance. The last change concerns the arrival, which I moved from Via Roma to Piazza Eroi Sanremesi, the place where the Sanremo stage of the 2001 Giro d'Italia ended: this modification moves the top of the Poggio away from the finish line by about 0.7 km, but introduces a final ramp of 600 meters at 4%, at the top of which the finish line is placed.

maps/viewtrack/425224

Image

Image

Image

E3 HARELBEKE

Ho apportato alcune modifiche, togliendo una salita storica come l’Oude Kwaremont, introducendo anche in questa corsa il muro di Grammont e imperniando il percorso su una salita scoperta solo recentemente, il Kanarieberg (2014), che deve essere scalata 3 volte

I made some changes, removing a historic climb such as the Oude Kwaremont, introducing the Grammont wall in this race as well and hinging the route on a climb only recently discovered, the Kanarieberg (2014), which must be climbed 3 times

maps/viewtrack/425305

Image

GAND-WEVELGEM

Per rendere la corsa più impegnativa ho inserito uno sconfinamento in Francia (come avvenuto in passato, per esempio nell’edizione 2010) e inserito un circuito (da affrontare sia prima, sia dopo il Kemmelberg) con più passaggi sui settori di sterrato inseriti anche nel percorso dell’edizione 2021

To make the race more challenging, I inserted an encroachment in France (as happened in the past, for example in the 2010 edition) and inserted a circuit (to be tackled both before and after the Kemmelberg) with more passages on the dirt sectors also included in the route of the 2021 edition

maps/viewtrack/425315

Image

RONDE VAN VLAANDEREN

Ho voluto incentrare per la prima volta nella storia il percorso sulla salita del Koppenberg, da ripetere tre volte.

For the first time in history I wanted to focus the route on the Koppenberg climb, to be repeated three times.

maps/viewtrack/425345

Image

SCHELDEPRIJS

Per questa gara ho cambiato totalmente il percorso, senza tuttavia snaturarlo. Innanzitutto ho scelto, in rispetto al nome della corsa, di far disputare tutta la prima parte in prossimità del corso del fiume Schelda, partendo da Anversa, dirigendosi verso Gent e quindi rientrando ad Anversa. Alla fine ho conservato il traguardo finale a Schoten, togliendo però il circuito e inserendo alcuni tratti in pavè nuovi prima di affrontare quello che tradizionalmente veniva affrontato nel circuito finale.

For this race i totally changed the route, without however distorting it. First of all i chose, with respect to the name of the race, to have the entire first part run near the course of the Schelde river, starting from Antwerp, heading towards Ghent and then returning to Antwerp. In the end i kept the final finish line in Schoten, but removed the circuit and insert some new cobblestones before tackling what was traditionally faced in the final circuit.

maps/viewtrack/425424

Image

PARIS-ROUBAIX

Per la Roubaix ho provato a immaginare un’edizione della corsa disputata dopo due anni di stop a causa della pandemia. Per accontentare gli appassionati ho pensato di raddoppiare i passaggi su uno dei settori più “gettonati” dai tifosi, il Carrefour, inserendo un circuito che prevede di percorrere due volte anche i tre settori precedenti. Per contenere il chilometraggio ho tagliato il secondo, il terzo, il quarto e il quinto dei settori tradizionali, conservando il primo tratto di pavè e la partenza da Compiègne. Il numero di settori di pavè è comunque rimasto invariato (29)

For Roubaix i tried to imagine an edition of the race held after two years of stoppage due to the pandemic. To please the fans, I thought of doubling the passages on one of the most “popular” sectors by the fans, the Carrefour, by inserting a circuit that plans to cover the previous three sectors twice as well. To limit the mileage, i cut the second, third, fourth and fifth of the traditional sectors, keeping the first stretch of cobblestones and the departure from Compiègne. However, the number of cobblestone sectors remained unchanged (29)

maps/viewtrack/425436

Image

DE BRABANTSE PIJL

Il percorso è ispirato a quello dei campionati mondiali del 2021

The course is inspired by that of the 2021 world championships

maps/viewtrack/425455

Image

AMSTEL GOLD RACE

Per l’Amstel ho pensato ad un percorso transfrontaliero che, pur non rinunciando alle strade storiche della corsa olandese, prevede due mini circuiti interni disegnati a cavallo dei confini con il Belgio e la Germania. Il circuito finale del Cauberg è quello classico, senza la variante introdotta negli ultimi anni.

For the Amstel i thought of a cross-border route which, while not giving up the historic roads of the Dutch race, includes two internal shorts circuits designed to straddle the borders with Belgium and Germany. The final circuit of the Cauberg is the classic one, without the variant introduced in recent years.

maps/viewtrack/425508

Image

FLÈCHE WALLONNE

Ho scovato una salita nuova vicino ad Huy, la Côte de la Rue de la Neuville. Non è impegnativa (2.5 Km al 5.8%), ma presenta fondo interamente in cemento. L’ho inserita nel tradizionale circuito finale da ripetere due volte (ma i passaggi su questa salita e sul muro finale sono tre)

I found a new climb near Huy, the Côte de la Rue de la Neuville. It is not demanding (2.5 Km al 5.8%) but has an entirely concrete bottom. I included it in the traditional final circuit to be repeated twice (but there are three passages on this climb and on the final wall)

maps/viewtrack/425530

Image

Image

Image

Image

LIÈGE-BASTOGNE-LIÈGE

Ho modificato il finale, togliendo due salite storiche, lo Stockeu e la Roche aux Faucons, che ho sostituto inserendo un’ascesa nuova, il Fort de la Rochelle (1.6 Km al 9.2%) e reintroducendo nel percorso la Côte de Saint-Nicolas. Subito dopo quest’ultima si devono affrontare altre salite, anch’esse mai inserite prima nel percorso della Doyenne, sulle colline a nord del centro di Liegi.

I modified the finish, removing two historic climbs, the Stockeu and the Roche aux Faucons, which i replaced by inserting a new ascent, the Fort de la Rochelle (1.6 Km at 9.2%) and reintroducing the Côte de Saint-Nicolas into the route. Immediately after the latter, other climbs must be tackled, also never included before in the Doyenne route, on the hills north of the center of Liège.
maps/viewtrack/425591

Image

Image


User avatar
JoostvandeBeek
Spettatore
Posts: 21
Joined: 24/08/2016, 9:34
Location: Eindhoven

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by JoostvandeBeek »

mauro wrote: 20/04/2021, 17:49 Ecco le mie corse. Nota: personalmente non ho notato falle negli attuali percorsi (Sanremo a parte), ma ho voluto comunque provare ad introdurre novità in tutte le gare per cambiare un po’ il solito “sapore” e proporre ai corridori qualcosa di nuovo (se ci si assuefa troppo ad un percorso va a finire che, a lungo andare, le solite salite diventi sempre meno selettive, come capitato con la Sanremo)

Here are my runs. Note: i personally did not notice any flaws in the current routes (apart from Sanremo), but I still wanted to try to introduce new things in all the races to change the usual "flavor" a little and offer the riders something new (if you get used to it too much of a path ends up that, in the long run, the usual climbs become less and less selective, as happened with the Sanremo)

maps/tours/view/18494

Spoiler!

OMLOOP HET NIEUWSBLAD

Ho rimodellato il percorso sia nel tratto centrale, sia e soprattutto in quello finale introducendo alcuni settori di pavè e uno di sterrato nel tratto successivo al Bosberg. Sul grafico ho indicato solo i tratti di pavè e sterrato inseriti nel finale

I remodeled the route both in the central section and especially in the final one by introducing some sectors of cobblestones and a dirt road in the section following the Bosberg. On the altimetry I have indicated only the sections of cobblestones and dirt roads inserted in the final

maps/viewtrack/425095

Image

KUURNE-BRUXELLES-KUURNE

Questa corsa l’ho voluta riportare agli albori, quando effettivamente il percorso toccava Bruxelles. In questo modo ho dovuto rinunciare a molte delle salite che si affrontano nelle edizioni più recenti, ma ho concepito un tracciato non banale e che comunque favorisce anche i velocisti, che nel recente passato si sono imposti in diverse occasioni a Kuurne. Come nell’Omloop ho inserito alcuni tratti di pavè nel tratto finale.

I wanted to bring this race back to its origins, when the route actually touched Brussels. In this way I had to give up many of the climbs that are faced in the most recent editions, but I conceived a track that is not trivial and that in any case also favors the sprinters, who in the recent past have imposed themselves on several occasions in Kuurne. As in the Omloop, I have inserted some sections of cobblestones in the final section.

maps/viewtrack/425140

Image

STRADE BIANCHE

Ho inserito alcuni settori nuovi e uno di questi può rivaleggiare in durezza con quello di Monte Sante Marie: è quello di Vignoni Alto, che presenta un tratto in salita di 2.4 Km al 10.5% e prende il via da uno dei borghi più spettacolari delle Crete Senesi, Bagno Vignoni, famoso per la sua piazza quasi interamente occupata da una vasca di acqua termale calda. I settori nuovi sono indicati con “new”

I have included some new sectors and one of these can rival in hardness that of Monte Sante Marie: it is that of Vignoni Alto, which has an uphill stretch of 2.4 km at 10.5% and starts from one of the most spectacular villages of the Crete Senesi, Bagno Vignoni, famous for its square. lmost entirely occupied by a tub of hot thermal water. New sectors are indicated with "new"

maps/viewtrack/425160

Image

Image

MILANO-SANREMO

Personalmente sono da sempre favorevole all’inserimento di una nuova salita nel finale perché la Sanremo non deve essere solo una corsa per velocisti, considerato che in passato l’hanno vinta anche corridori che sprinter non sono come Bartali, Gimondi, Bugno e Chiappucci per esempio. Sulla Pompeiana pare ci sia ancora il veto della Prefettura, ma subito prima del Poggio ci sarebbe la salita di Bussana Vecchia. Nonostante questa mia considerazione, nel disegnare la mia Milano-Sanremo non ho voluto aggiungere nessuna salita ma adottare due piccole variazioni, due “pizzichi di sale” che non stravolgono il percorso ma potrebbero rendere gli esiti della corsa leggermente meno scontati. La prima modifica riguarda il versante d’ascesa alla Cipressa: arrivati a San Lorenzo al Mare anziché svoltare verso la Cipressa si continua sull’Aurelia per un chilometro per poi imboccare il nuovo versante, che è di poco più ripido della strada classica (4 Km al 5.6% vs 5.5 Km al 4.1%), presenta una pendenza media dell’8.2% nei primi due chilometri e un imbocco più stretto e selettivo (ma non pericoloso). L’ultima modifica riguarda l’arrivo, che ho spostato da Via Roma a Piazza Eroi Sanremesi, il luogo dove si concluse la tappa di Sanremo del Giro d’Italia del 2001: questa modifica allontana la cima del Poggio dal traguardo di circa 0.7 Km, ma introduce una rampa finale di 600 metri al 4%, in cima alla quale è posto il traguardo.

Personally I have always been in favor of inserting a new climb in the final because the Sanremo must not be just a race for sprinters, considering that in the past it was also won by runners who are not sprinters like Bartali, Gimondi, Bugno and Chiappucci for example. On Pompeiana it seems there is still the prohibition of the Prefecture, but immediately before the Poggio there would be the climb to Bussana Vecchia. Despite my consideration, in designing my Milan-Sanremo I did not want to add any climbs but to adopt two small variations, two "pinches of salt" that do not upset the course but could make the results of the race slightly less obvious. The first change concerns the slope of the ascent to the Cipressa: once in San Lorenzo al Mare, instead of turning towards the Cipressa, continue on the Aurelia for a kilometer and then take the new slope, which is slightly steeper than the classic road (4 km at 5.6% versus 5.5 Km at 4.1%), has an average gradient of 8.2% in the first two kilometers and a narrower and more selective (but not dangerous) entrance. The last change concerns the arrival, which I moved from Via Roma to Piazza Eroi Sanremesi, the place where the Sanremo stage of the 2001 Giro d'Italia ended: this modification moves the top of the Poggio away from the finish line by about 0.7 km, but introduces a final ramp of 600 meters at 4%, at the top of which the finish line is placed.

maps/viewtrack/425224

Image

Image

Image

E3 HARELBEKE

Ho apportato alcune modifiche, togliendo una salita storica come l’Oude Kwaremont, introducendo anche in questa corsa il muro di Grammont e imperniando il percorso su una salita scoperta solo recentemente, il Kanarieberg (2014), che deve essere scalata 3 volte

I made some changes, removing a historic climb such as the Oude Kwaremont, introducing the Grammont wall in this race as well and hinging the route on a climb only recently discovered, the Kanarieberg (2014), which must be climbed 3 times

maps/viewtrack/425305

Image

GAND-WEVELGEM

Per rendere la corsa più impegnativa ho inserito uno sconfinamento in Francia (come avvenuto in passato, per esempio nell’edizione 2010) e inserito un circuito (da affrontare sia prima, sia dopo il Kemmelberg) con più passaggi sui settori di sterrato inseriti anche nel percorso dell’edizione 2021

To make the race more challenging, I inserted an encroachment in France (as happened in the past, for example in the 2010 edition) and inserted a circuit (to be tackled both before and after the Kemmelberg) with more passages on the dirt sectors also included in the route of the 2021 edition

maps/viewtrack/425315

Image

RONDE VAN VLAANDEREN

Ho voluto incentrare per la prima volta nella storia il percorso sulla salita del Koppenberg, da ripetere tre volte.

For the first time in history I wanted to focus the route on the Koppenberg climb, to be repeated three times.

maps/viewtrack/425345

Image

SCHELDEPRIJS

Per questa gara ho cambiato totalmente il percorso, senza tuttavia snaturarlo. Innanzitutto ho scelto, in rispetto al nome della corsa, di far disputare tutta la prima parte in prossimità del corso del fiume Schelda, partendo da Anversa, dirigendosi verso Gent e quindi rientrando ad Anversa. Alla fine ho conservato il traguardo finale a Schoten, togliendo però il circuito e inserendo alcuni tratti in pavè nuovi prima di affrontare quello che tradizionalmente veniva affrontato nel circuito finale.

For this race i totally changed the route, without however distorting it. First of all i chose, with respect to the name of the race, to have the entire first part run near the course of the Schelde river, starting from Antwerp, heading towards Ghent and then returning to Antwerp. In the end i kept the final finish line in Schoten, but removed the circuit and insert some new cobblestones before tackling what was traditionally faced in the final circuit.

maps/viewtrack/425424

Image

PARIS-ROUBAIX

Per la Roubaix ho provato a immaginare un’edizione della corsa disputata dopo due anni di stop a causa della pandemia. Per accontentare gli appassionati ho pensato di raddoppiare i passaggi su uno dei settori più “gettonati” dai tifosi, il Carrefour, inserendo un circuito che prevede di percorrere due volte anche i tre settori precedenti. Per contenere il chilometraggio ho tagliato il secondo, il terzo, il quarto e il quinto dei settori tradizionali, conservando il primo tratto di pavè e la partenza da Compiègne. Il numero di settori di pavè è comunque rimasto invariato (29)

For Roubaix i tried to imagine an edition of the race held after two years of stoppage due to the pandemic. To please the fans, I thought of doubling the passages on one of the most “popular” sectors by the fans, the Carrefour, by inserting a circuit that plans to cover the previous three sectors twice as well. To limit the mileage, i cut the second, third, fourth and fifth of the traditional sectors, keeping the first stretch of cobblestones and the departure from Compiègne. However, the number of cobblestone sectors remained unchanged (29)

maps/viewtrack/425436

Image

DE BRABANTSE PIJL

Il percorso è ispirato a quello dei campionati mondiali del 2021

The course is inspired by that of the 2021 world championships

maps/viewtrack/425455

Image

AMSTEL GOLD RACE

Per l’Amstel ho pensato ad un percorso transfrontaliero che, pur non rinunciando alle strade storiche della corsa olandese, prevede due mini circuiti interni disegnati a cavallo dei confini con il Belgio e la Germania. Il circuito finale del Cauberg è quello classico, senza la variante introdotta negli ultimi anni.

For the Amstel i thought of a cross-border route which, while not giving up the historic roads of the Dutch race, includes two internal shorts circuits designed to straddle the borders with Belgium and Germany. The final circuit of the Cauberg is the classic one, without the variant introduced in recent years.

maps/viewtrack/425508

Image

FLÈCHE WALLONNE

Ho scovato una salita nuova vicino ad Huy, la Côte de la Rue de la Neuville. Non è impegnativa (2.5 Km al 5.8%), ma presenta fondo interamente in cemento. L’ho inserita nel tradizionale circuito finale da ripetere due volte (ma i passaggi su questa salita e sul muro finale sono tre)

I found a new climb near Huy, the Côte de la Rue de la Neuville. It is not demanding (2.5 Km al 5.8%) but has an entirely concrete bottom. I included it in the traditional final circuit to be repeated twice (but there are three passages on this climb and on the final wall)

maps/viewtrack/425530

Image

Image

Image

Image

LIÈGE-BASTOGNE-LIÈGE

Ho modificato il finale, togliendo due salite storiche, lo Stockeu e la Roche aux Faucons, che ho sostituto inserendo un’ascesa nuova, il Fort de la Rochelle (1.6 Km al 9.2%) e reintroducendo nel percorso la Côte de Saint-Nicolas. Subito dopo quest’ultima si devono affrontare altre salite, anch’esse mai inserite prima nel percorso della Doyenne, sulle colline a nord del centro di Liegi.

I modified the finish, removing two historic climbs, the Stockeu and the Roche aux Faucons, which i replaced by inserting a new ascent, the Fort de la Rochelle (1.6 Km at 9.2%) and reintroducing the Côte de Saint-Nicolas into the route. Immediately after the latter, other climbs must be tackled, also never included before in the Doyenne route, on the hills north of the center of Liège.
maps/viewtrack/425591

Image

Image


Your Brabantse Pijl finishes in Leuven, and as far as I know and what I can find on the internet, it has never finished there so the route does not comply with the contest rules. I also wanted to point out that your Côte de Saint-Nicolas is not the famous one from LBL, you should take the twisty Rue Bordelais just to the east of your climb ;-)
User avatar
mauro
Allievo
Allievo
Posts: 182
Joined: 05/03/2015, 16:48

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by mauro »

JoostvandeBeek wrote: 20/04/2021, 23:14
mauro wrote: 20/04/2021, 17:49 Ecco le mie corse. Nota: personalmente non ho notato falle negli attuali percorsi (Sanremo a parte), ma ho voluto comunque provare ad introdurre novità in tutte le gare per cambiare un po’ il solito “sapore” e proporre ai corridori qualcosa di nuovo (se ci si assuefa troppo ad un percorso va a finire che, a lungo andare, le solite salite diventi sempre meno selettive, come capitato con la Sanremo)

Here are my runs. Note: i personally did not notice any flaws in the current routes (apart from Sanremo), but I still wanted to try to introduce new things in all the races to change the usual "flavor" a little and offer the riders something new (if you get used to it too much of a path ends up that, in the long run, the usual climbs become less and less selective, as happened with the Sanremo)

maps/tours/view/18494

Spoiler!

OMLOOP HET NIEUWSBLAD

Ho rimodellato il percorso sia nel tratto centrale, sia e soprattutto in quello finale introducendo alcuni settori di pavè e uno di sterrato nel tratto successivo al Bosberg. Sul grafico ho indicato solo i tratti di pavè e sterrato inseriti nel finale

I remodeled the route both in the central section and especially in the final one by introducing some sectors of cobblestones and a dirt road in the section following the Bosberg. On the altimetry I have indicated only the sections of cobblestones and dirt roads inserted in the final

maps/viewtrack/425095

Image

KUURNE-BRUXELLES-KUURNE

Questa corsa l’ho voluta riportare agli albori, quando effettivamente il percorso toccava Bruxelles. In questo modo ho dovuto rinunciare a molte delle salite che si affrontano nelle edizioni più recenti, ma ho concepito un tracciato non banale e che comunque favorisce anche i velocisti, che nel recente passato si sono imposti in diverse occasioni a Kuurne. Come nell’Omloop ho inserito alcuni tratti di pavè nel tratto finale.

I wanted to bring this race back to its origins, when the route actually touched Brussels. In this way I had to give up many of the climbs that are faced in the most recent editions, but I conceived a track that is not trivial and that in any case also favors the sprinters, who in the recent past have imposed themselves on several occasions in Kuurne. As in the Omloop, I have inserted some sections of cobblestones in the final section.

maps/viewtrack/425140

Image

STRADE BIANCHE

Ho inserito alcuni settori nuovi e uno di questi può rivaleggiare in durezza con quello di Monte Sante Marie: è quello di Vignoni Alto, che presenta un tratto in salita di 2.4 Km al 10.5% e prende il via da uno dei borghi più spettacolari delle Crete Senesi, Bagno Vignoni, famoso per la sua piazza quasi interamente occupata da una vasca di acqua termale calda. I settori nuovi sono indicati con “new”

I have included some new sectors and one of these can rival in hardness that of Monte Sante Marie: it is that of Vignoni Alto, which has an uphill stretch of 2.4 km at 10.5% and starts from one of the most spectacular villages of the Crete Senesi, Bagno Vignoni, famous for its square. lmost entirely occupied by a tub of hot thermal water. New sectors are indicated with "new"

maps/viewtrack/425160

Image

Image

MILANO-SANREMO

Personalmente sono da sempre favorevole all’inserimento di una nuova salita nel finale perché la Sanremo non deve essere solo una corsa per velocisti, considerato che in passato l’hanno vinta anche corridori che sprinter non sono come Bartali, Gimondi, Bugno e Chiappucci per esempio. Sulla Pompeiana pare ci sia ancora il veto della Prefettura, ma subito prima del Poggio ci sarebbe la salita di Bussana Vecchia. Nonostante questa mia considerazione, nel disegnare la mia Milano-Sanremo non ho voluto aggiungere nessuna salita ma adottare due piccole variazioni, due “pizzichi di sale” che non stravolgono il percorso ma potrebbero rendere gli esiti della corsa leggermente meno scontati. La prima modifica riguarda il versante d’ascesa alla Cipressa: arrivati a San Lorenzo al Mare anziché svoltare verso la Cipressa si continua sull’Aurelia per un chilometro per poi imboccare il nuovo versante, che è di poco più ripido della strada classica (4 Km al 5.6% vs 5.5 Km al 4.1%), presenta una pendenza media dell’8.2% nei primi due chilometri e un imbocco più stretto e selettivo (ma non pericoloso). L’ultima modifica riguarda l’arrivo, che ho spostato da Via Roma a Piazza Eroi Sanremesi, il luogo dove si concluse la tappa di Sanremo del Giro d’Italia del 2001: questa modifica allontana la cima del Poggio dal traguardo di circa 0.7 Km, ma introduce una rampa finale di 600 metri al 4%, in cima alla quale è posto il traguardo.

Personally I have always been in favor of inserting a new climb in the final because the Sanremo must not be just a race for sprinters, considering that in the past it was also won by runners who are not sprinters like Bartali, Gimondi, Bugno and Chiappucci for example. On Pompeiana it seems there is still the prohibition of the Prefecture, but immediately before the Poggio there would be the climb to Bussana Vecchia. Despite my consideration, in designing my Milan-Sanremo I did not want to add any climbs but to adopt two small variations, two "pinches of salt" that do not upset the course but could make the results of the race slightly less obvious. The first change concerns the slope of the ascent to the Cipressa: once in San Lorenzo al Mare, instead of turning towards the Cipressa, continue on the Aurelia for a kilometer and then take the new slope, which is slightly steeper than the classic road (4 km at 5.6% versus 5.5 Km at 4.1%), has an average gradient of 8.2% in the first two kilometers and a narrower and more selective (but not dangerous) entrance. The last change concerns the arrival, which I moved from Via Roma to Piazza Eroi Sanremesi, the place where the Sanremo stage of the 2001 Giro d'Italia ended: this modification moves the top of the Poggio away from the finish line by about 0.7 km, but introduces a final ramp of 600 meters at 4%, at the top of which the finish line is placed.

maps/viewtrack/425224

Image

Image

Image

E3 HARELBEKE

Ho apportato alcune modifiche, togliendo una salita storica come l’Oude Kwaremont, introducendo anche in questa corsa il muro di Grammont e imperniando il percorso su una salita scoperta solo recentemente, il Kanarieberg (2014), che deve essere scalata 3 volte

I made some changes, removing a historic climb such as the Oude Kwaremont, introducing the Grammont wall in this race as well and hinging the route on a climb only recently discovered, the Kanarieberg (2014), which must be climbed 3 times

maps/viewtrack/425305

Image

GAND-WEVELGEM

Per rendere la corsa più impegnativa ho inserito uno sconfinamento in Francia (come avvenuto in passato, per esempio nell’edizione 2010) e inserito un circuito (da affrontare sia prima, sia dopo il Kemmelberg) con più passaggi sui settori di sterrato inseriti anche nel percorso dell’edizione 2021

To make the race more challenging, I inserted an encroachment in France (as happened in the past, for example in the 2010 edition) and inserted a circuit (to be tackled both before and after the Kemmelberg) with more passages on the dirt sectors also included in the route of the 2021 edition

maps/viewtrack/425315

Image

RONDE VAN VLAANDEREN

Ho voluto incentrare per la prima volta nella storia il percorso sulla salita del Koppenberg, da ripetere tre volte.

For the first time in history I wanted to focus the route on the Koppenberg climb, to be repeated three times.

maps/viewtrack/425345

Image

SCHELDEPRIJS

Per questa gara ho cambiato totalmente il percorso, senza tuttavia snaturarlo. Innanzitutto ho scelto, in rispetto al nome della corsa, di far disputare tutta la prima parte in prossimità del corso del fiume Schelda, partendo da Anversa, dirigendosi verso Gent e quindi rientrando ad Anversa. Alla fine ho conservato il traguardo finale a Schoten, togliendo però il circuito e inserendo alcuni tratti in pavè nuovi prima di affrontare quello che tradizionalmente veniva affrontato nel circuito finale.

For this race i totally changed the route, without however distorting it. First of all i chose, with respect to the name of the race, to have the entire first part run near the course of the Schelde river, starting from Antwerp, heading towards Ghent and then returning to Antwerp. In the end i kept the final finish line in Schoten, but removed the circuit and insert some new cobblestones before tackling what was traditionally faced in the final circuit.

maps/viewtrack/425424

Image

PARIS-ROUBAIX

Per la Roubaix ho provato a immaginare un’edizione della corsa disputata dopo due anni di stop a causa della pandemia. Per accontentare gli appassionati ho pensato di raddoppiare i passaggi su uno dei settori più “gettonati” dai tifosi, il Carrefour, inserendo un circuito che prevede di percorrere due volte anche i tre settori precedenti. Per contenere il chilometraggio ho tagliato il secondo, il terzo, il quarto e il quinto dei settori tradizionali, conservando il primo tratto di pavè e la partenza da Compiègne. Il numero di settori di pavè è comunque rimasto invariato (29)

For Roubaix i tried to imagine an edition of the race held after two years of stoppage due to the pandemic. To please the fans, I thought of doubling the passages on one of the most “popular” sectors by the fans, the Carrefour, by inserting a circuit that plans to cover the previous three sectors twice as well. To limit the mileage, i cut the second, third, fourth and fifth of the traditional sectors, keeping the first stretch of cobblestones and the departure from Compiègne. However, the number of cobblestone sectors remained unchanged (29)

maps/viewtrack/425436

Image

DE BRABANTSE PIJL

Il percorso è ispirato a quello dei campionati mondiali del 2021

The course is inspired by that of the 2021 world championships

maps/viewtrack/425455

Image

AMSTEL GOLD RACE

Per l’Amstel ho pensato ad un percorso transfrontaliero che, pur non rinunciando alle strade storiche della corsa olandese, prevede due mini circuiti interni disegnati a cavallo dei confini con il Belgio e la Germania. Il circuito finale del Cauberg è quello classico, senza la variante introdotta negli ultimi anni.

For the Amstel i thought of a cross-border route which, while not giving up the historic roads of the Dutch race, includes two internal shorts circuits designed to straddle the borders with Belgium and Germany. The final circuit of the Cauberg is the classic one, without the variant introduced in recent years.

maps/viewtrack/425508

Image

FLÈCHE WALLONNE

Ho scovato una salita nuova vicino ad Huy, la Côte de la Rue de la Neuville. Non è impegnativa (2.5 Km al 5.8%), ma presenta fondo interamente in cemento. L’ho inserita nel tradizionale circuito finale da ripetere due volte (ma i passaggi su questa salita e sul muro finale sono tre)

I found a new climb near Huy, the Côte de la Rue de la Neuville. It is not demanding (2.5 Km al 5.8%) but has an entirely concrete bottom. I included it in the traditional final circuit to be repeated twice (but there are three passages on this climb and on the final wall)

maps/viewtrack/425530

Image

Image

Image

Image

LIÈGE-BASTOGNE-LIÈGE

Ho modificato il finale, togliendo due salite storiche, lo Stockeu e la Roche aux Faucons, che ho sostituto inserendo un’ascesa nuova, il Fort de la Rochelle (1.6 Km al 9.2%) e reintroducendo nel percorso la Côte de Saint-Nicolas. Subito dopo quest’ultima si devono affrontare altre salite, anch’esse mai inserite prima nel percorso della Doyenne, sulle colline a nord del centro di Liegi.

I modified the finish, removing two historic climbs, the Stockeu and the Roche aux Faucons, which i replaced by inserting a new ascent, the Fort de la Rochelle (1.6 Km at 9.2%) and reintroducing the Côte de Saint-Nicolas into the route. Immediately after the latter, other climbs must be tackled, also never included before in the Doyenne route, on the hills north of the center of Liège.
maps/viewtrack/425591

Image

Image


Your Brabantse Pijl finishes in Leuven, and as far as I know and what I can find on the internet, it has never finished there so the route does not comply with the contest rules. I also wanted to point out that your Côte de Saint-Nicolas is not the famous one from LBL, you should take the twisty Rue Bordelais just to the east of your climb ;-)
I chose Leuven because it is the capital of Brabant and to take advantage of the wave of the world championship.
For Saint-Nicolas i chose what seemed to me the most direct route.
User avatar
Micek_52
Spettatore
Posts: 22
Joined: 16/10/2019, 21:43

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by Micek_52 »

What start and finish cities are allowed for Ronde Van Vlaanderen?
User avatar
JoostvandeBeek
Spettatore
Posts: 21
Joined: 24/08/2016, 9:34
Location: Eindhoven

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by JoostvandeBeek »

Micek_52 wrote: 21/04/2021, 13:37 What start and finish cities are allowed for Ronde Van Vlaanderen?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_of_F ... _locations
User avatar
Belgian4444
Spettatore
Posts: 32
Joined: 08/02/2017, 13:38

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by Belgian4444 »

maps/tours/view/18558

Explanations in the spoiler!

30/04 edit: used an unusable road in the AGR, edited route.
Spoiler!

Omloop

Philosophy: The Omloop is kind of the "Tour of the Haaghoek/Leberg" so we'll need to incorporate that. Also, it should stay above the Oudenaarde-Brakel line formed by the N8. I keep the Meerbeke finish, since the Muur/Bosberg combo should stay in a final of at least a semi-classic. The Molenberg should stay a key point.

Issue: 2/3 passages over the Haaghoek are basically irrelevant, so we'll need to improve on that. The common criticism of "Muur/Bosberg combo is too predictable" should be a point of focus as well.

Fix: Molenberg, which will always give breaks in the peloton, gets moved a bit sooner and sandwiched between two Haaghoek passages, making the Haaghoek important as a leadout to the Molenberg as well as an obstacle for breakaways. Added the Congoberg after the Bosberg as an ideal jumping point for a solo breakaway, shortening the 12km to the finish after the last climb to 8km.

Image

Image

Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne

Philosophy: Should remain a possibility for sprinters who can handle themselves on the Flemish climbs. No hills from the omloop and preferably under the N8. Kwaremont as "make or break" point for sprinters. A local lap is kind of tradition as is a passage through Hainaut province.

Issue: Kwaremont is a bit too far to my liking, should be a bit more a 50/50 situation for a sprinter. Climbs are very spread out.

Fix: Moved Kwaremont closer to the finish and kept about the same number of climbs, only moved a bit more together.

Image

Strade Bianche

Philosophy: Sienna to Montalcino and back with lots of white roads and short climbs.

Issue: As fun as the climbs are, we don't see a lot of the iconic white roads in the last 50km.

Fix: Drop some white roads in the beginning to give room to add a parallel white road to the original route at the midway point. The real change is when the original route goes to Castelnuovo, I choose to add a small detour to the north, adding the Canonica a Cerreto climb and instead of going from the Colle Pinzuto straight to Le Tolfe, I add 2 more climbs on white roads between them.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Milan - San Remo

Philosophy: Go from Milan to San Remo in less than 300km while including Cipressa/Poggio.

Issue: Predictability. Or a succesful move gets made on the Poggio, making an exciting last few kms or it stays together and we have a sprint.

Fix: Add a short, steep climb. Maybe not a great one to attack due to the steepness in the end, but a breaking point for a sprinter. A sprinter that wins now has earned it by himself by managing to hold on in the end. No help from teammates possible to get you back in.

Image

Image

E3 Harelbeke

Philosophy: RVV light. Paterberg in front of the Kwaremont. Taaienberg as key point.

Issue: Not a lot really.

Fix: The steep Kanarieberg is kind of wasted in the current route, so I put the Kanarieberg right in front of the Taaienberg, creating a very interesting double header.

Image

"Gent"-Wevelgem

Philosophy: Use West-Flanders and the Kemmelberg to create an interesting route, with a possibility of a group sprint.

Issue: Drop the Plug streets, there's no point in them. Add a few climbs to get more variety in the racing.

Fix: Use more of the WW1 frontline to really focus on that part of Belgian history. Go back to French Flanders as in some previous editions, both for mixing things up in the race and as a showing of cooperation between countries.

Image

Ronde Van Vlaanderen

Philosophy: Celebration and compilation of all previous cobble races. The ultimate route in the French Ardennes.

Issue: Oh boy. Using the Kwaremont 3 times is a VIP cash grab. The second passage already has become a predictable key point with not enough happening before it. Also, with the iconic Koppenberg so close, it gets used way too soon, something that should have been fixed with moving to Oudenaarde (a move I agree with since Geraardsbergen is indeed a bit too far from the other climbs)

Fix: Remove to Brugge. Gent is superior to both Antwerpen and Brugge, but they have the Omloop. And as a true non-Antwerp based Belgian, I don't wish good things for Antwerp :p. Use the Kwaremont as opening and closing climb, giving a nice full circle. Also, the Kwaremont is closer to the finish and is a perfect place for a solo breakaway, while chances for a sprint are too high at this moment, so this creates an almost guaranteed opportunity for the strongest guy to win, as it should be for this race. The Hotond is perfectly placed to go straight to the Paterbert and THEN go to the Koppenberg right in the finale, making the Koppenberg the absolute make or break moment to get a chance to break away on the Kwaremont. The Molenberg is placed in a way the race should open up sooner than now.

Image

Scheldeprijs

Philosophy: Sprint in Schoten while using the Broekstraat.

Issue: Final sprint is way too dangerous.

Fix: Move a bit more towards Antwerp in the local route and changing the finish place to a wider street.

Image

Paris-Roubaix

Philosophy: Cobbles, cobbles and cobbles. Arenberg, Mons-en-Pevele and Carrefour de l'Arbre should be used.

Issue: There's a moment of regrouping after Arenberg, which kind of cheapens that iconic section.

Fix: Therefore I added a few cobble sections to really blow up the race. Also, I added another 5 star section in Gondecourt. This gives a bit more normal roads after Mons-en-Pevele, but it gives two 5 stars sections back-to-back and because of the changes after Arenberg, a little moment of breathing might be necessary.

Image

Brabantse Pijl

Philosophy: Hills in the Brabant provinces.

Issue: The finishline is a little bit in a weird place (residential area) and riders wait a bit too much for the IJskelderlaan, also because of a too long piece of flat road in front of it.

Fix: Tried to change the IJskelderlaan more to a possible breakaway moment instead of a long sprint by changing the finish to the larger road (Drogenberg). Added the Kouterstraat right in front of the IJskelderlaan.

Image

Image

Image

Amstel Gold Race

Philosophy: Massive amounts of climbs in Dutch Limburg.

Issue: We all know it: too much waiting. And while a lot of people believe it's due to the Cauberg, I think it's more because of a misuse of the steep Keutenberg: after the Keutenberg, there's a long time of flat roads.

Fix: Use the Keutenberg twice. Don't use the long way around in the finale, but go to the Eyserbosweg. Place another hill instead of a few kms of flat road right before the final Cauberg so organizing a peloton gets even more difficult. Get the last 50km a constant up/down with more challenging climbs by doing a circuit using the Eyserbosweg/Keutenberg twice. Finishline stays, so not back to the top of the Cauberg to eliminate waiting on the final jump.

Image

Image

Fleche Wallone

Philosophy: Sprint on the Mur of Huy.

Issue: We can't avoid a wait for the final Mur, that's logical. But we can spice it up.

Fix: Add another climb in the final kms, so we have 3 in the final 10 instead of 2, making an organization of the peloton very difficult.

Image

Image

LBL

Philosophy: Climbing through the Ardennes

Issue: We see too many sprints for such a hilly route. We should reward breakaways.

Fix: Don't count on the Roche, we get the Saint-Nicolas back in, but with a downhill to the centre of Liege, giving a nice breakaway opportunity. Also add two tough climbs between them to avoid any 3+ of the same team in the final. Let's make it more man-to-man.

Image

Image

Image
User avatar
Luna23
Spettatore
Posts: 12
Joined: 11/04/2020, 23:07

Re: Contest #3 - Improved spring Classics [Cat. 2]

Post by Luna23 »

Sorry to say, but I am going to have to sit this one out.
Is there any sanction for doing so? I have too much in life atm
Swiss cycling fanatic
Locked