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Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

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Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by emmea90 »

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Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

In this topic you can vote for the Benelux Cobbled Classics, according to the following rules.

PLEASE READ ALL THE POST BEFORE VOTING

How to vote

1 - You have to judge the track according to the requirements: contests/contest-uci-road-world-cup-t7347.html

2 - You have to write in a post your best FIVE routes, from worse to best, providing a brief motivation for each choice
FIFTH PLACE
(Motivation)

FOURTH PLACE
(Motivation)

THIRD PLACE
(Motivation)

SECOND PLACE
(Motivation)

FIRST PLACE
(Motivation)
How does it work?
- First choice got 6 points, second 4, third 3, fourth 2 and fifth 1 point.
- Presentation bonus grant you 3 points (we will add later with penalties who took the bonus)
- Ranking will be made according to points obtained
- In case of equality I will decide the winner
- YOU CAN'T VOTE FOR YOURSELF
- You can also comment other people's reviews regarding your or other one's routes
- YOU CAN'T CHANGE YOUR VOTE ONCE SUBMITTED

Who can vote?
- Every user that submitted a contest (full points vote)
- Every user in the La Flamme Rouge Staff (Emmea90, Pigna, Sagan99, Matthorse, Nasdon33, Linkinito, Bose12)
- Every user that has registered BEFORE today and has at least 10 tracks in the editor. In this case, his votes counts half of the points scale

Penalties
- Every user that submitted a contest and doesn't submit a valid vote (with 5 choices and motivations) will get a 10 points penalty for all his routes.
- It's FORBBIDDEN to ask for votes. Who will be caught public or privately asking for a vote to some users will get a 50 points penalty in first instance, then the exclusion from all the contests of the year
- Vote penalties for unpracticable routes will be assigned by staff during this phase

Requisites for the +3 bonus
- Providing link of the tour in the post
- Providing viewable image of each stage with a description in the post

Deadline for vote phase is june 17, h 23.59

Routes
Benoit.guillot: post31328.html#p31328 +3 pts presentation
Emilio.torre: maps/tours/view/14788
Mauro: maps/tours/view/14794 +3pts presentation
AjachiChakrabarti: maps/tours/view/14811 +3pts presentation
davandluz: maps/tours/view/14793 +3pts presentation
Jajoejoe: maps/tours/view/14827 +3pts presentation
Kanon16: maps/tours/view/14899 +3pts presentation
Brumdog66; maps/tours/view/14935 +3pts presentation
Diego12Alpe: maps/tours/view/14769 +3pts presentation
Micek_52: maps/tours/view/14830 +3pts presentation
PaStKaz: maps/tours/view/14795 +3pts presentation
Arnorius: maps/tours/view/14920 +3pts presentation
Xander66: maps/tours/view/14808 +3pts presentation
Pincoletto: maps/tours/view/14858 +3pts presentation
taaramae_crack: maps/tours/view/15104 +3pts presentation
jibvalverde: maps/tours/view/15107 +3pts presentation
iamceekae: maps/tours/view/15115 +3pts presentation
paoloagb: maps/tours/view/15119 +3pts presentation
improb: maps/tours/view/14945 +3pts presentation
Jadmeal: maps/tours/view/14782 +3pts presentation
Software Engineer, Cycling Fanatic

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emilio.torre
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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by emilio.torre »

This my UCI Road World Cup's contest vote

5th place - Pincoletto - maps/tours/view/14858 - the world cup's calendar position are not well balanced, rides are very well build but containes some mistakes.

4th place - jibvalverde - maps/tours/view/15107 - a very good work with acceptable mistake, host locations are perfect to host a cycling race.

3rd place - jajoejoe - maps/tours/view/14827 - good work, the race position on the calendar are the unique mistake of that world cup

2nd place - Arnorius - maps/tours/view/14920 - a very well work, i like the Pompeii's round for his difficulty,
I thank him for putting a part of the Pompei's race course that passes near my home, unique mistake but little, he can insert cobbled sector of Archeological Area. the other race of road world cup he designed are very beautiful.

1st place - kanon16 - maps/tours/view/14899 - excellent work, i like Napoli Cup ride, other race are very tough and beautiful, i like them

PS - if you have forgotten my link, I will send it back to you for evaluation by the other competitors - maps/tours/view/14788

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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by Brumdog66 »

Sorry about that the last thread was locked so maps/tours/stageedit/14935

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Micek_52
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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by Micek_52 »

Basically, the scoring went as follows:
A. General Requirements (max. 20 points):
[*] At least one race in N.America, S.America and Asia - 5pts if you included all three, 2pts penalty for each missing.
[*] Race allows different kinds of riders to compete for GC - The stadnard was three of each stage type (flat, medium mt., high mt.), any deviations incurred a 1pt penalty.
[*] Rules definition - Basically 5 points if you posted the rules. Points for inpracticable rules were deducted in section C.

B. Race specific requirements (max 25 points):
[*] 0,5 points for each of: City-located, circuits/extra passages of any point, time of the race, no TT's and race length between 250 and 290 Km. Maximum 2,5pts/race.

C. Bonus Points (max. 15 points):
[*] 2pts penalty for weird/unpracticable rules (such as having a GC based on points, and a seperate classification by time)
[*] 2pts bonus for each additional continent visited,
[*] 4pts bonus for making all races outside of Europe
[*] 1pt bonus for each interesting stage (either because of route, location or background story behind the race)
[*] There were also a few other reasons for bonuses/penalties not mentioned here.
-----------
RESULTS:
1. Place: Kanon16: maps/tours/view/14899 58,5 of 60 points
A well balanced tour with races all over the world. Could not get much better.

2. Place: Mauro: maps/tours/view/14794 58 of 60 points
Another well-balanced race, with a unique feature of completly avoiding Europe. The only thing I don't like about it is that it ends with a flat race.

3.Place: Jadmeal: maps/tours/view/14782 58 of 60 points
Similarly to Kanon16 and Mauro, this is also a well balanced race, maybe there could be one more high mountain stage but otherwise excellent. I like the Flanders/Roubaix opening two races.

4.Place: AjachiChakrabarti: maps/tours/view/14811 58 of 60 points
Well designed tour, but maybe a bit unbalanced, with 6 medium mountain stages and only 2 flat and 2 High mountain. Also the race distances are weighed heavily towards 290 km-mark. But otherwise it is quite an interesting tour with most races outside of Europe.

5. Place: taaramae_crack: maps/tours/view/15104 56 of 60 points
Also well designed, maybe one High mountain stage too little. Other than that, some of the races look a little less interesting than those of the top 4 of the contest.


6. improb (55 pts)
7./8. iamceekae and PaStKaz (54 pts)
9. davandluz (53 pts)
10. Xander66 (52 pts)
11. Diego12Alpe (51 pts)
12./13. Brumdog66 and Pincoletto (50,5 pts)
14./15. Jajoejoe and paoloagb (49,5 pts)
16. jibvalverde (49 pts)
17. Arnorius (48,75 pts)
18. Benoit.guillot (42,5 pts)
19. Emilio.torre (33,5 pts)
-----

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Arnorius
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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by Arnorius »

Micek_52 wrote:
11/06/2020, 14:08
Nice to see you did it this way, because some peoples votes I never understand :p. But still some questions. You never mentioned the dates of the races (which was quite important because of snow).

And also one thing I dont understand: You loose 4 points if you have a race in Europe (I don't get why but that's your opinion) but you get 2 points if you do have a race in Europe? Or do I understand wrong?

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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by Arnorius »

First, something:
Everyone with a race in UK, Belgium, Northern France, ... I just didn't watch the rest because the weather is too big a risk in my opinion, so the competition can't be done...


5th: paoloagb
A positive point is that you do have some races for pure climbers. But I think that cobbled race is quite stupid to be honest. The descent in Rio might be dangereous (It's a positive thing you at least tried to climb the way they descended in the olympics to make it less dangereous). Also, the finish on top of Lombard street in SF seems difficult because of all those turns. With another finish line that would be a nice race ;)
And I don't see how sprinters could win the overall competition. Almost no real sprinters chances.


4th AjachiChakrabarti
Actually the thing that worries me the most is that you just invented a road in your Cape Town race. I think that's a little bit cheating :p. There were enough other options to make a nice race there.


3rd: Kanon16
If I just see those races: perfect. But there is one thing you forgot in my opinion. How can sprinters win the competition? I think third and second place had the same issues.


2nd: Pincoletto
All races are very well placed all over the world, no problems with bad weather. Only sprinters will complain about the lack of chances they have.


1st: Mauro
I miss Europe... Also, be careful where to put your finishes, in Buenos Aires you have a flat race with a chicane 120m before the finish line...
This was by far the best one, but you made a big mistake to make it a team competition, because I think this would be by far the best one with a decent point scale.


Oh and one more thing: why all those jerseys? :p just one overall winner is what was asked I thought? :p

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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by PaStKaz »

Arnorius wrote:
11/06/2020, 19:20
First, something:
Everyone with a race in UK, Belgium, Northern France, ... I just didn't watch the rest because the weather is too big a risk in my opinion, so the competition can't be done...
Omloop Het Nieuwsbad was cancelled last time in 2004. And earlier in 1986. So it looks quite possible to make race there in last days of february.

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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by Xander66 »

Arnorius wrote:
11/06/2020, 19:20
First, something:
Everyone with a race in UK, Belgium, Northern France, ... I just didn't watch the rest because the weather is too big a risk in my opinion, so the competition can't be done...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to contest your votes or your way of thinking, but this seems a bit harsh doesn't it? I mean, the weather in some regions of the US or Japan for example can be just as risky as Belgium during this time of the year...

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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by Micek_52 »

Arnorius wrote:
11/06/2020, 18:23
Micek_52 wrote:
11/06/2020, 14:08
Nice to see you did it this way, because some peoples votes I never understand :p. But still some questions. You never mentioned the dates of the races (which was quite important because of snow).

And also one thing I dont understand: You loose 4 points if you have a race in Europe (I don't get why but that's your opinion) but you get 2 points if you do have a race in Europe? Or do I understand wrong?
Well, the dates of the races fall within the category B. So if you made races which would potentially have snow, you would lose points there. However I did not see many people with races like this. Maybe there were courses which would have cold weather, but I didn't complicate too much. There have been cold editions of Sanremo and Liege in the past.

About the points of races in Europe: Two points bonus only for visiting Oceania and Africa. There was no bonus for Europe, because all but one had a race in Europe. The reason I gave four points bonus for not visiting Europe is because the weather might be unpredictable (usually we dont associate December/January bike racing with Europe) and it is also harder to make interesting races outside of Europe, so i thought I should reward those who take this "challenge".

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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by davandluz »

5th jibvalverde
Rules kept simple, I like that... but are commercial teams or national teams competing? The Gotemba and Rio stages are just unneccesarily hardened versions of something already - or soon to be - seen. Same goes for the Richmond stage. Not fond of the Cartago stage either, in terms of hardness. In Zagreb it might snow on the mountain pass, so that's another weak spot. The Pau stage, on the other hand, is fascinating.

4th mauro
I like the idea of completely skipping Europe to give visibility to other parts of the world, but... I don't think it would happen: the money and the sponsors mostly come from the Old Continent. General classification rules need to be rivisited (what if there are DNFs? The flat stages do not influence the outcome of the WC anymore). The team The Quito stage is too difficult, considering the altitude as well, the circuit climb should have been alterned with a flat section. Side note, I really don't like the name "exotic".

3rd Xander66
I like your WC, rules are simple and immediate (I would have put a bit more difference between 1st and 2nd place). There are a few places with too much risk of snow (NYC in late November is not completely safe, but I am especially referring to the Brussels stage, you should have provided an alternative to route in case of impracticability). About New York, the final circuit is quite dangerous with all the sharp turns. The Réunion stage is a bit too hard, but honestly beautiful.

2nd PaStKaz
Well balanced, nicely designed WC. The Tehran circuit is actually fantastic (I don't see the purpose of the Darban climb though, I would have personally avoided to add it). Two things: the Martinique stage is too hard , and, as in Belgium it often snows in December, an alternative route should be provided for the Waterloo stage. Regarding the points,I think the second classified rider should not get 4/5 of the winner's points, it's too much.

1st Kanon16
Well designed WC, with probably the best stages; the Napoli one seems like a true gem, my absolute favorite of this contest. You might have overdone it in Ecuador, though. Just two things: the first remark is the same as the one I gave to PaStKaz, too little distance between 1st and 2nd spot. The second remark I have is about the feasibility on the chosen cities: I find it highly unlikely that two cities in the same country would get statal support for the organization of two stages in this WC, yet alone a country like Italy, which has renounced to host the 2020 Championships due to the lack of funds. These events serve as a spotlights for cities and regions, and two cities in the same country would not be accepted to be hosts.

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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by Brumdog66 »

Small disclaimer- I know I'm being critical and my race has probably more problems than most.
These are my votes:

5) iamceekae- Generally good mixture, but I thought quite a few of the stages were a bit similar and overused the single lap format a bit.
4) Arnorius- Nice variety of stages, with most scenarios catered for, although I think the series lacked an out and out brutal leg-sapper. Thought the Hobart stage was fantastic and also appreciated the effort that went into making a jersey.
3)Jajoejoe- All great stages, the only things that bumped you down were the ending with 2 flat stages (even though it's not a stage race I still think it's a bit anticlimactic) and having 2 stages in Bradford (possibly a bit biased as I'm from Sheffield).
2)Kanon16- Overall great, San Francisco stage was the best of the lot, but the top two were really close and I preferred the winners classification format.
1)paoloagb- Not much to say, I thought the top 2 series were pretty much perfect, but I think everyone didn't give enough points for the winner (I'm clearly in a small minority on this) and you had the biggest jump in points from 1st to 2cnd.

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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by Arnorius »

Xander66 wrote:
11/06/2020, 20:00
Arnorius wrote:
11/06/2020, 19:20
First, something:
Everyone with a race in UK, Belgium, Northern France, ... I just didn't watch the rest because the weather is too big a risk in my opinion, so the competition can't be done...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to contest your votes or your way of thinking, but this seems a bit harsh doesn't it? I mean, the weather in some regions of the US or Japan for example can be just as risky as Belgium during this time of the year...
There were indeed some other races like NY that are impossible too I think, I opened all tours to check the overall map and see where everything was located, just named northern europe but there were more regions indeed.
But you know how it can freeze in northern Europe, roads can be extremely dangereous, that's more the reason than snow. And yes it may be harsh but you have to start somewhere when voting. And this is just a rule that everyone will have another opinion on I guess.

BTW: I understand you, your route is quite good just the locations are not ideal to my opinion, and that is just the way I chose to vote, so I understand.

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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by kanon16 »

..
Last edited by kanon16 on 11/06/2020, 23:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by kanon16 »

Arnorius wrote:
11/06/2020, 19:20
3rd: Kanon16
If I just see those races: perfect. But there is one thing you forgot in my opinion. How can sprinters win the competition? I think third and second place had the same issues.
Hi Arnorius!!

First of all, thank you for your vote! Much appreciated!
On your question yes, this is a good point and I thought about it a bit by building the route..
I think the hardest thing was to think of balanced rules for all types of riders and I don't know if I did it...really I don't know also how much weight to give to the rules in my personal ranking..
I simply thought that the strongest sprinter could win at least two races, while it was more difficult for the best climber who does not have a real uphill finish in my 10 races..
In addition, the sprinter can add points in intermediate sprints, even in the hardest stages..
This was my thought..but actually i don't know if it would work in reality and i admit that my preference, thinking about a winner, is for classic or GT riders! :mrgreen:
Last edited by kanon16 on 13/06/2020, 20:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by kanon16 »

My vote:

FIFTH PLACE: Mauro
A good path, with any excellent races (Duitama, Miami Beach and Quito) but with some choices that I don't like (the arrival in Hong Kong) and some street not visible on street views like in Capo Verde or in Tunisi...
Anyway I appreciated the idea to build all the races in the southern hemisphere

FOURTH PLACE: Brumdog66
Nice job, well balanced path, Apia and Alajuela are great races.
But I think that 4 races in northen Europe between november and january are too much for this kind of competition..
I would have looked for warmer places!

THIRD PLACE: Jibvalverde
All races are well drawed and full of imagination, I like very much your drawing.
Cartago and Rio are really super.
A bit of mistakes in designating the type of race in my opinion: Pau and Richmond are not Plain Stages..
Other problem: the Fuji in ganuary...too much risk of snow! The same for Zagreb!
I'm not even 100% convinced of the scores in your rules

SECOND PLACE: Davandluz
Very good job. World Cup well balanced and drawing with a sense!
Christchurch one of my favorite stages!...pity there are some mistakes: I would have reversed the sense of the final circuit because the descents are too steep..then Port Levy climb need a MTB!..
Medellin anyway is beautiful and Cape Town too!
But Liege in january..it leaves me with doubts..

FIRST PLACE: Arnorius
All the races are well cared for and drawed, without mistakes.
I like in particular the stage in Japan, Hollywood and Las Palmas.
Maybe the general classification could be a little in favor of sprinters, because you give a lot of points in the intermediate sprints and two mountain stage have the last climb very far away from the arrival..

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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by jibvalverde »

Without a doubt the most difficult contest I have ever had to rate ... Unfortunately not in a good way. Many races in places not at all credible in a winter period, absurd regulations (classification by team when it is specifically asked to crown A RIDER) or ultra complex, etc. Here are the only five who "pleased" me, knowing that none will have really followed all the instructions.

FIFTH PLACE: kanon16

I found your point system not very fair because it strongly benefits climbers (more passes than sprints) but, at least, your races are supposed and well laid out. It just lacks a little balance, I can't see how a sprinter could win the GC.

FOURTH PLACE: pincoletto

Your points system seems to me to be fairly balanced but, for once, it is your races that pose a little more problem to me with an absence in my sense of races for "climbers". And therefore a respect of the average instructions…

THIRD PLACE: Arnorius

I like your point system, simple and necessarily effective. Most of your races are well traced. I just have two problems: the complicated double passage at the Genting Highlands and especially the Los Angeles Cycling Classic, which technically does not go to the city in which it arrives.

SECOND PLACE: IamCeeKae

Perfect point system, very fair and simple. I love your races, with doable European tests and quality foreign tests. I especially love the one in Las Vegas. However, the guidelines were not really followed at the level of the final winner, since a sprinter has no chance of winning with only three races out of ten "for him".

FIRST PLACE: pabloagb

I hesitated for the first place between you and IamCeeKae, since you have generally the same point system and the same balance problem for the GC at the sprinters level. However, I find your races more interesting, with a strade race, a paved race, etc. In short, more diversity.

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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by Diego12Alpe »

· FIRST PLACE | davandluz: Good races that could be unpredictable, there are races designed for one type of rider but that doesn't completely rule out the options of other riders.

· SECOND PLACE | PaStKaz: Very balanced World Cup with races of all types where very different riders can win.

· THIRD PLACE | jajoejoe: Hard and balanced races for different type of riders.

· FOURTH PLACE | JAdmeal: Good races but I would like to see more hilly races because I think you medium mountain races are very hard and coul be considered high mountain races.

· FIFTH PLACE | kanon16: I find your races a little bit similar to each others and can end in a similar way.

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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by benoît.guillot »

5th place : Pincoletto

Loved the location of your races but not enough moutain to please me


4th place : Pabloagb

Nice races but not enough originality


3rd place : Kanon16

Good balance but your location are not original enough


2nd place : AjachiChakrabarti

That's pretty solid but i'm not sure every road you took are suitable for cycling in this season


1st place : Arnorius

Love eveything in your races. Locations, balance, really evrything. Nice job

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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by IamCeeKae »

5th Place - kanon16
The classics have decent balance between them. What stands out with them is that the hilly stages are 'tame', in a positive sense of the word. That the hilly classics are tame indicates that some sprinters might still have a chance at a stage victory during these races, even despite the challenges they experience with climbing. Don't rule out punchers though. Things to do better next time, I'd suggest not doing two classics in the same country, in this case Italy. The rules of this road world cup are valid, although the yellow jersey rider appears to be at an unnecessary advantage, just for wearing said jersey.

4th Place - AjachiChakrabarti
What stands out with this road world cup, as well as another one during this contest, is the rules section. It is nationality based. Cyclists are not riding for themselves, something that could cause problems even within teams, but rather for their country. Lacking in this race however, is the amount of variety. The amount of flat stages is kept on the down-low, leaving sprinters at a severe disadvantage.

3rd Place - Arnorius
This race stands out for its many classics being ridden on islands and peninsulas. What's most important about this race though, is that it's properly balanced when it comes to the kinds of races, and the profiles don't pose a challenge to the amount that cyclists might blow themselves up in the middle of the stage. It's really smooth, to some extent. When it comes to the intermediate sprints though, I would've suggested placing more sprints on the flat, rather than on top of mountains or even hills. There's a slight imbalance there that could have been prevented.

2nd Place - mauro
The race profiles in this road world cup are appealing, and the thought of staying outside of Europe is an original one, although there's a slight imbalance as to where else these classics are ridden. Lots of them in South America and Asia, not so many on the other three continents, excluding Europe of course. Despite that, the races that have been presented are well-balance and appealing.

1st Place - davandluz
This race sparked my interest. Similar to AjachiChakrabarti, a rule system was used focusing on nationality. Not only these rules, but also the rules about participating countries and the final race are very detailed and appealing. The only problem I can find with this road world cup is that there's a preference to European races, despite the weather risks, and the dates on which these races are ridden. The profiles, which are really nice and have good balance, definitely make up for that though.

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Re: Contest #4 - UCI Road World Cup - VOTING

Post by Pincoletto »

5th place - Arnorius
Excellent choice of locations, but also some little mistakes.

4th place - Kanon16
Another tour with an excellent distribution of difficulties.

3rd place - Diego12Alpe
Single races are probably the most beautiful, but i have some doubts about the climate of some locations during the race period.

2nd place - davandluz
A very very balanced tour, with a lot of good classics; second place but only for the photo finish.

1st place - iamceekae
All classics are really nice, maybe that of Las Vegas is too hard, but overall a really good job.
Last edited by Pincoletto on 17/06/2020, 0:14, edited 1 time in total.
Uno dei pochi sport in cui Berlusconi non abbia investito una lira è il ciclismo, dunque qualcosa di buono deve averlo

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