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Contest 5 - Voting (deadline 27/9): Link
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Contest #1 - Voting

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emmea90
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Contest #1 - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 26/04/2019, 9:37

Contest #1 - Voting

In this topic you can vote for the Tour of Colombia Contest, according to the following rules.

PLEASE READ ALL THE POST BEFORE VOTING

How to vote

1 - You have to judge the track according to the requirements.
The first contest will be about a designing of a Grand Tour in a region that has recently grown thanks to San Luis, then San Juan and Tour of Colombia: South America - and we will do it in Colombia.

You have to draw your 21 stage race in Colombia, following the traditional rules for a GT: 3500 Kms max length, 21 days of racing and 2 of rest. And of course all the UCI rules: contests/uci-rules-t7083.html

The GT is intended to be ridden between January and February in replacement of Vuelta San Juan and Tour Colombia so no need to worry about snow in mountains. It's summer there

Constraints
You can host a maximum of three stages of a 'Grand Depart' in a nation that share borders with Colombia
The final stage must be in Bogota, Medellin, Calì, Barranquilla or Cartagena
You should try to visit at least four of the five Colombian regions
The route should present at least four high mountain stages
The route should present at least 40 Kms ITT
The route should be balanced
You can present circuits only in two stages, final eventually included in it
2 - You have to write in a post your best FIVE routes, from worse to best, providing a brief motivation for each choice
FIFTH PLACE
(Motivation)

FOURTH PLACE
(Motivation)

THIRD PLACE
(Motivation)

SECOND PLACE
(Motivation)

FIRST PLACE
(Motivation)
How does it work?
- First choice got 6 points, second 4, third 3, fourth 2 and fifth 1 point.
- Presentation bonus grant you 3 points (we will add later with penalties who took the bonus)
- Ranking will be made according to points obtained
- In case of equality I will decide the winner
- YOU CAN'T VOTE FOR YOURSELF
- You can also comment other people's reviews regarding your or other one's routes
- YOU CAN'T CHANGE YOUR VOTE ONCE SUBMITTED

Who can vote?
- Every user that submitted a contest (full points vote)
- Every user in the La Flamme Rouge Staff (Emmea90, Pigna, Sagan99, Matthorse, Nasdon33, Linkinito, Bose12)
- Every user that has registered BEFORE april 26th 2019 and has at least 10 tracks in the editor. In this case, his votes counts half of the points scale

Penalties
- Every user that submitted a contest and doesn't submit a valid vote (with 5 choices and motivations) will get a 10 points penalty for all his routes.
- It's FORBBIDDEN to ask for votes. Who will be caught public or privately asking for a vote to some users will get a 50 points penalty in first instance, then the exclusion from all the contests of the year
- Vote penalties for unpracticable routes will be assigned by staff during this phase

Deadline for vote phase is may 10th 2019, h 23.59

Routes
Mauro: maps/tours/view/11356
Jadmeal: maps/tours/view/11357
Ikhoudvanfrikandellen: maps/tours/view/11530
jibvalverde: maps/tours/view/11484
tomrenm: maps/tours/view/11425
PaStKaz: maps/tours/view/11370
Xander66: maps/tours/view/11505
YellowJersey: maps/tours/view/11544
Arnorius: maps/tours/view/11342
Alfa: maps/tours/view/11385
Software Engineer, Cycling Fanatic

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Ikhoudvanfrikandellen
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Re: Contest #1 - Voting

Post by Ikhoudvanfrikandellen » 02/05/2019, 19:25

(
NINTH PLACE: YellowJersey
Many mountain stages contain climbs with bad roads. Take stage 10 for instance, ascending the Fómeque is already very improbable, but then a steep descent on a narrow sand trench is asking for a rider rebellion.

EIGTH PLACE: Alfa
Grand Départ in Panama is very wrong in my opinion. The two regular stages are boring, and mostly use the same road but in different direction. Then the final stage there is 200+, giving the teams a day to travel and then another 200+ stage back in Colombia. Also containing some climbs for which I have my doubts if they are suited for racing.

SEVENTH PLACE: jibvalverde
There are some stages and climbs I really like, for instance the Pueblo Bello climb which I had initally as well but got cut out at the last minute. However, there are also some stages which raise my eyebrows, such as the 71! kilometer criterium on stage nine, and the final stage containing category one and two climbs!

SIXTH PLACE: Mauro
Just outside the points. A decent route but nothing really spectacular. Maybe a bit too time-trial oriented, including two time trials of similar length and profile in the final week. Excursion to Venezuela is illegal though I believe.
)

FIFTH PLACE: Jadmeal
Question marks regarding the Nevado del Tolima finish, given street view says the road is a bit too rough for my liking. Stage 20 is too heavy with over 10k of denivel. And the final stage should not be flat with the cat 1 before entering the circuit. Also only visiting 3 out of 5 regions. Otherwise, mountain stages are very good, and not much to complain else.

FOURTH PLACE: Arnorius
Places four to one were really close in my eyes, so it really came down to details. The Zapatoca stage is too short for only having one climb. Also no feeding zones on all stages.

THIRD PLACE: PaStKaz
I like the descriptions of each stage. Maybe a bit too many mountain stages for my liking, but most of them are well-designed. Virgen de Torcomora is a very good found, and I like the inclusion of a MTT. Stage five is my main concern. completely ruined but the dangerous, impractical descent before the final climb.

SECOND PLACE: tomrenm
Kudos to taking the race to all five mainland regions. Only Tolemeida - Soacha is a bad stage, too short and only climbing. Stage finish in Medellín and the inclusion of Iconozo are great. Only missing feeding zones.

FIRST PLACE: Xander66
Good reasoning behind the no high altitude multiple mountain stages while still having a balanced route containing enough mountain stages. Malaga Duitama for instance is a well designed stage (one I originally had in the exact same route). Cartagena TTT is amongst the best departs. Not much to complain about except missing feeding zones.

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Re: Contest #1 - Voting

Post by jibvalverde » 03/05/2019, 20:18

FIFTH PLACE : mauro
4 time trial it's too much, 2 in the last week too. Too bad because other stages are pretty good, between classics colombian stages like Alto el pozo and original stages.

FOURTH PLACE : Arnorius
Maybe not enough high moutain in the fisrt two weeks but an impression of rising power which should please GT riders who like third week. A great GT.

THIRD PLACE : Alfa
Like Arnorius, an impression of rising power but not only with high moutain. A lot of middle moutain and short stages (above 160km) which could lead riders to offer a great race. Interesting.

SECOND PLACE : YellowJersey
A lot of high moutain in first week, few in second and classic two in the third and last. A good schema which force GT riders to be ready from the beginning. I love your middle moutain stage around Cali, great last stage for GT riders.

FIRST PLACE : Xander66
A lot of common with my Colombia Tour so i like it ^^ More seriously, i like a lot you last week, which like a little mine, with Armenia ITT and arrival to Las Palmas. Very weel traced. Globally, a great rising of power but a good balance between the three weeks too. +1 for your stage Pitalito to Popayán.

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YellowJersey
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Re: Contest #1 - Voting

Post by YellowJersey » 04/05/2019, 0:30

9th - tomrenm
I think the start in Bogotá doesn't fit very well, there's too much back-and-forth to go over the regions, too many mountain stages in the end and Zipaquirá hosting two starts isn't really that good.
8th - Mauro
Too many time-trials, kinda anti-climax finish.
7th - Alfa
Panama start could be much better (going towards Colombia), the downhill ITT is a bit weird and the stages seem to crammed in the same area.
6th - jibvalverde
Bogota/Vilavencio there looks weird, basically two stages are simmetric, Medellin stage in the end is cool but what's up with the final climb? Either wrong gradient or almost impossible to climb :D
5th - Jadmeal
The stages are good but there are too many flat stages in the begining and too many mountainous in the end, should be more disperse.
4th - Ikhoudvanfrikandellen
Too many mountain stages early on, start in Equador is cool (I had planned on it too initially) but it isn't as well balanced as other routes.
3rd - PaStKaz
Weird mountain stage pattern, lots of them early on, but awesome stages overall, not a fan of the MTT though.
2nd - Arnorius
Very good stages they were my favourite, but Cartagena fully in the opening stages and lots of Bogotá kinda takes away that edge.
1st - Xander66
Probably kicking my (hopeful) chances of a win by giving Xander maximum points, his route was really good with good flow, Manizales being the same finale as real life was a bit disapointing though. Not sure if my eye decieves but looks like 3 regions only.

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YellowJersey
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Re: Contest #1 - Voting

Post by YellowJersey » 04/05/2019, 1:26

Of course it's completely subjective, if you think my route is a piece of s*** I'm fine with it :D

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Re: Contest #1 - Voting

Post by jibvalverde » 04/05/2019, 15:56

YellowJersey wrote:
04/05/2019, 0:30

6th - jibvalverde
Bogota/Vilavencio there looks weird, basically two stages are simmetric, Medellin stage in the end is cool but what's up with the final climb? Either wrong gradient or almost impossible to climb :D
No, no, it's the right gradient. It will be an hell for the riders, that's all ^^

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Xander66
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Re: Contest #1 - Voting

Post by Xander66 » 06/05/2019, 0:25

I had some criteria before I looked at the routes in detail:
1) a start outside of Colombia would immediatly make your route drop in my personal ranking
2) stage/transfer distance was very important
3) of course, the altitude
I didn't pay too much attention to the routes being practible or not, I just looked at how your race looked on the profile and the overall map

5th place: Ikhoudvanfrikandellen
To my opinion, your route had a lot of ups, and a lot of downs. For every stage that I thought was really good (your time trial along the coast line for example, might be nice I think), there was another stage that made me reconsider my opinion (the altitude was a serious problem..). Because at some points you had some really cool stages or interesting ideas, I think a fifth place is a fair ranking.

4th place: PaStKaz
It's clear to see that you've put some effort in making your race, also the (short) introduction to your stages were a nice surprise. But when it comes to your route, I had some serious doubts. To name two of them: altitude is way too high sometimes I believe, and there's also no need for that small hill in your final stage. On the other hand, what I really did like about your tour is the mountain-time trial.

3rd place: jibvalverde
In general your stages were good, not too high, sometimes maybe a bit too long but they were okay. I just think it's a bit weird that you have 2 stages that are more or less the same, just in the opposite direction? Overall it's a good tour, I just miss one (maybe two) more easy uphill finishes for the climbers. I just don't think there are enough chances to drop a Dumoulin-type in the mountains now.

2nd place: tomrenm
I really liked your first 4-5 stages, I think they might give a really interesting start to the race. After that you lost me a bit, I think some stages might be too long and perhaps too boring. But going to the end things got better again. I also enjoyed the idea of start and finish in Bogota, making it a full 'tour' of Colombia.

1st place: Arnorius
I remember your routes from last year's contests, and those were really good, and you simply did it again. I really think you found a nice race-balance for all rider types. Speaking for the general classification, I might've put the time trial a bit later, but your tour is more than fine as it is now.

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Arnorius
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Re: Contest #1 - Voting

Post by Arnorius » 06/05/2019, 19:24

Always super hard to vote on a GT, so much things to consider... And this time in a totally new country with few good roads. Hard to say what is more important when you judge. I think most routes were quite equal in total.

FIFTH: jibvalverde: maps/tours/view/11484
An unpracticable road in the cali stage, also, i wouldn’t have finished with a mountain stage. Also, i do’nt see the point of a stage like stage 8, ending with a 50 km descend… But you did have short transfers between stages

FOURTH PLACE: Ikhoudvanfrikandellen: maps/tours/view/11530
A finish at 3700 meters altitude… just too high i think.

THIRD PLACE: tomrenm: maps/tours/view/11425
Some long transfers, also, maybe start and finish of your tour shouldnt have been in the same city.


SECOND PLACE: PaStKaz: maps/tours/view/11370
Some long transfers between stages. But you managed to go to 4 regions, something not a lot of people did 😊


FIRST PLACE: Xander66: maps/tours/view/11505
Only the stage to Popayan you used some gravel roads that i don’t think were useable.
The whole tour looks a lot like the one I made, so logically this is nr 1. Although I have to say you didn’t go to 4 of the 5 regions.

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Re: Contest #1 - Voting

Post by jibvalverde » 06/05/2019, 21:21

Arnorius wrote:
06/05/2019, 19:24
Always super hard to vote on a GT, so much things to consider... And this time in a totally new country with few good roads. Hard to say what is more important when you judge. I think most routes were quite equal in total.

FIFTH: jibvalverde: maps/tours/view/11484
An unpracticable road in the cali stage, also, i wouldn’t have finished with a mountain stage. Also, i do’nt see the point of a stage like stage 8, ending with a 50 km descend… But you did have short transfers between stages
What is the unpracticable road ? I thought i paid attention to avoid it... For stage 8, no really a choice because there were only two roads to come back to other side and no possibility to make an arrival in the top.

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Arnorius
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Re: Contest #1 - Voting

Post by Arnorius » 06/05/2019, 21:42

jibvalverde wrote:
06/05/2019, 21:21
Arnorius wrote:
06/05/2019, 19:24
Always super hard to vote on a GT, so much things to consider... And this time in a totally new country with few good roads. Hard to say what is more important when you judge. I think most routes were quite equal in total.

FIFTH: jibvalverde: maps/tours/view/11484
An unpracticable road in the cali stage, also, i wouldn’t have finished with a mountain stage. Also, i do’nt see the point of a stage like stage 8, ending with a 50 km descend… But you did have short transfers between stages
What is the unpracticable road ? I thought i paid attention to avoid it... For stage 8, no really a choice because there were only two roads to come back to other side and no possibility to make an arrival in the top.

The middle part of those last few climbs, but i only knew it because I almost had that part in my tour too ;)
About the other stage, I don't see a reallistic solution for that too :p. Because of the altitude you can't really make the stage longer.

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Re: Contest #1 - Voting

Post by PaStKaz » 09/05/2019, 16:35

FIFTH PLACE: tomrenm

5 regions in use (long stages in effect) but many days in Bogota and around Bogota on the other hand. One flat and boring time trial to reach minimum of 40 km (much more impressive would be two shorter with some hard moments in one of them).

FOURTH PLACE: JAdmeal

Nevado del Tolimas a little controversial idea. I like stage in Pasto but i prefer to see hilly ITT in 3rd weekend and flat in 2nd. And there are too much TT kms for me. In general nice stage profiles but balance could be a little better.

THIRD PLACE: Ikhoudvanfrikandellen

Hilly ITT at beginning is very interesting. I also very like last mountain stage before circuit in Medellin but in general i prefer to move some hard stages later in race.

SECOND PLACE: Xander66

Very nice balance, interesting last ITT (not so long, not so hard, but still competitive and even GC contenders with lack of ITT skills don't have to lose much time). Impressive route of start stage, even i don't like TTTs and prefer them to be very short. And yours is just short.

FIRST PLACE: Arnorius

I'm a little afriad that everyone would wait for last week. Which looks great. Also i like both ITT stages. Only one harder stage in 1st half of tour could make this route better for me.

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Re: Contest #1 - Voting

Post by tomrenm » 09/05/2019, 22:36

FIFTH PLACE - jibvalverde
A lot of hard stages, would be hard for the riders. I think it's not too hard, but maybe the first half of the tour could have been som easier. I think stage 20 finish would be interseting.

FOURTH PLACE - Ikhoudvanfrikandellen
If this is the very first Grand Tour in Colombia, a start in Equador would be wrong. The first week has more mountain stages than the last week; don't sounds like a good idea. Many stages with high altitude. But, a lot of the stages are interesting, and with some changes this could be a nice route.

THIRD PLACE - JAdemeal
Really good parcouse with not too hard stages in the beginning, and two really hard last mountain stages. Maybe too many ITT kms. A big minus for grand depart in the "spanish" city, Santa Marta

SECOND PLACE - Xander66
Well balnced route with interesting stages in all kind of terrain (TT, flat, hilly and mountains). Not too high altitudes, and some interesting roads of gravel. The race winner won't be decided until the last weekend. Maybe the two last final mountain stages could have been harder.

FIRST PLACE - Arnorius
Well designed route with many posibilities for changes in the GC. Small gaps in the beginning, and harder mountain stages in the last part.

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Re: Contest #1 - Voting

Post by Alfa » 10/05/2019, 21:55

5th place: tomrenm
I think that your stages are pretty cool and can make big gaps . I just think Valdivia stage is too hard with 240 km and very difficult climb at the end. But good GT

4th place: jibvalverde
I love Grand Depart in Baranquilla, I think the first stage can be destructive. I think other stages are good too .

3rd place: JAdmeal
Your GT is an excellent mix between plain and mountains. And I love that stage to honor Nairo Quintana in Combita.

2nd place: Arnorius
The mountains are very hard, which I like a lot. The gaps can be amazing there so this is a very good route.

1st place: Xander66
Like JAdmeal, your GT is perfectly balanced and even if there are less mountains than others I think this can be a very good tour IRL.

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