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Contest #4 - Voting

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emmea90
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Contest #4 - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 09/08/2019, 19:54

In this topic you can vote for the Merckixan Tour Contest, according to the following rules.

PLEASE READ ALL THE POST BEFORE VOTING

How to vote

1 - You have to judge the track according to the requirements.
Constraints
  • You have to draw an European Grand Tour, you can choose the zones you want but must include Belgium, Italy and France plus a country at your choice. You must do at least 5 stages in each of those countries
  • At least 18 finishes must present the same finish (finish line positions / last climb if was a mountain stage / same finish if it was a classic) of a Merckx victory
  • You must include at least 2 finishes from a Giro d'Italia victory and 2 finishes from a Tour de France victory plus a finish from one of the four World Championships victories (that includes at least 3 laps of the World Circuit in the stage - remember, we have all the World Championships circuits in our archive: maps/races?calendar%5B0%5D=8&years=all)
  • For the classics:
  • Transfers between stages should be realistic
  • Tour should be fitted to riders with Merckx Characteristic, so ITT must be balanced with mtf
  • Grand Tour MUST be drawn with 1970s rules
    • Route will last 23 days. Up to you if you want to insert rest days, you can also not do it
    • You must insert half-stages from a minimum of 4 (one day = 2 or 3 half stages) and a maximum of 10 (five days) half stages.
    • You can insert only a day divided in 3 half-stages and you can't insert a day divided in more than 3 half-stages.
    • Stage limit is still 240Km, you can go up with one stage until a maximum of 330 km and not 260 as it's now (remember, if you split a stage in half stages, the limit is the sum of daily kms)
    • Route must start with a prologue, can be also a TTT prologue
    • There must be at least 3 ITTs and one TTT or four ITTs. Usually ITTs at that time were short half-stages when TDF visited big cities. I suggest to have a look at the routes of TDF won by Merckx
    • As tour tool doesn't support rest days and half-stages, please specify them in the description and/or in presentation
2 - You have to write in a post your best FIVE routes, from worse to best, providing a brief motivation for each choice
FIFTH PLACE
(Motivation)

FOURTH PLACE
(Motivation)

THIRD PLACE
(Motivation)

SECOND PLACE
(Motivation)

FIRST PLACE
(Motivation)
How does it work?
- First choice got 6 points, second 4, third 3, fourth 2 and fifth 1 point.
- Presentation bonus grant you 3 points (we will add later with penalties who took the bonus)
- Ranking will be made according to points obtained
- In case of equality I will decide the winner
- YOU CAN'T VOTE FOR YOURSELF
- You can also comment other people's reviews regarding your or other one's routes
- YOU CAN'T CHANGE YOUR VOTE ONCE SUBMITTED

Who can vote?
- Every user that submitted a contest (full points vote)
- Every user in the La Flamme Rouge Staff (Emmea90, Pigna, Sagan99, Matthorse, Nasdon33, Linkinito, Bose12)
- Every user that has registered BEFORE august 9 2019 and has at least 10 tracks in the editor. In this case, his votes counts half of the points scale

Penalties
- Every user that submitted a contest and doesn't submit a valid vote (with 5 choices and motivations) will get a 10 points penalty for all his routes.
- It's FORBBIDDEN to ask for votes. Who will be caught public or privately asking for a vote to some users will get a 50 points penalty in first instance, then the exclusion from all the contests of the year
- Vote penalties for unpracticable routes will be assigned by staff during this phase

Voting will close friday august 23 on 23,59.

Routes
jajojejoe: maps/tours/view/12188 +3 pres
IamCeeKay: maps/tours/view/12232 +3 pres
jibvalverde: maps/tours/view/12223 +3 pres
Kanon16: maps/tours/view/12262 +3 pres
Yellowjersey: maps/tours/view/12186 +3 pres
Carlo33: maps/tours/view/12322 +3 pres
AjachiChakrabarti: maps/tours/view/12400 +3 pres
Arnorius: maps/tours/view/12264 +3 pres
Bocmanis82: maps/tours/view/12488 +3 pres
Jadmeal: maps/tours/view/12462
Xander66: maps/tours/view/12516

If we forgot your route, please contact me in DM
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Arnorius
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Re: Contest #4 - Voting

Post by Arnorius » 10/08/2019, 10:19

YellowJersey wrote:
04/07/2019, 22:44
Ah so I assume the minimum of 5 stages in those countries means it is on all of them together, not a minimum of 5 stages in each
This was never really answered i think?

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Carlo33
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Re: Contest #4 - Voting

Post by Carlo33 » 10/08/2019, 19:14

FIFTH PLACE: IamCeeKae
This Tour begins in Belgium and finishes in Belgium and this is one thing I didn't appreciate a lot. I also didn' like the fact that are not a lot of stages in France. One thing i really liked is the last stage, with the 100 km Individual Pursuit that determinate the winner of the Tour.

FOURTH PLACE: AjachiChakrabarti
This is a very very good tour and i really liked the prologue and the first stage that are great. I didn't love the 2nd and the 7th stage that are too much long for a tour in the modern cycling. The stages from 9th to 12th are interesting. Taken as whole, this tour is really good.

THIRD PLACE: Xander66
The third place goes to Xander66. This tour is incredible because it links two important towns, Knokke-Heist and Napoli, that are very distant. It's like a tour from the North Sea to the Tirreno. This is a great tour, nothing to say about that, but, in my opinion, the two Tours I put in first two positions are best.

SECOND PLACE: kanon16
The silver medal goes to kanon16. His tour is really good and I really liked all the stages. The best stage of the Tour is the 19th stage. It's just crazy, with three mountains that are very, very, very hard. Taken as whole, this Tour is great and I love that the distances of the stages aren't too long.

FIRST PLACE: Bocmanis82
The other tours are good, great but this is simply incredible. Five countries are visited and the only problem I can find is that they are 21 days and not 23. This is "illegal" but I think that this Tour is too much good to be criticise. The three High Mountain Stages that finish on Zoncolan, Mont ventoux and Angliru and the stage from Sondrio to Livigno are really hard, especially if they are in the same tour.

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emmea90
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Re: Contest #4 - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 10/08/2019, 21:33

Arnorius wrote:
10/08/2019, 10:19
YellowJersey wrote:
04/07/2019, 22:44
Ah so I assume the minimum of 5 stages in those countries means it is on all of them together, not a minimum of 5 stages in each
This was never really answered i think?
It was 5 stages in each country, not in all of them together.
so 5 in france, 5 in italy, 5 in suisse, 5 in belgium for example, other 1/3 free.

For country counts where the major part of stage is
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Arnorius
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Re: Contest #4 - Voting

Post by Arnorius » 11/08/2019, 9:14

emmea90 wrote:
10/08/2019, 21:33
Arnorius wrote:
10/08/2019, 10:19
YellowJersey wrote:
04/07/2019, 22:44
Ah so I assume the minimum of 5 stages in those countries means it is on all of them together, not a minimum of 5 stages in each
This was never really answered i think?
It was 5 stages in each country, not in all of them together.
so 5 in france, 5 in italy, 5 in suisse, 5 in belgium for example, other 1/3 free.

For country counts where the major part of stage is
yeah i know but clearly a lot of people didn't know (if i see their routes), just for how I'm supposed to take that in consideration when voting. But at least he asked so can't really blame him :p

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AjachiChakrabarti
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Re: Contest #4 - Voting

Post by AjachiChakrabarti » 13/08/2019, 19:03

Carlo33 wrote:
10/08/2019, 19:14
FIFTH PLACE: IamCeeKae
This Tour begins in Belgium and finishes in Belgium and this is one thing I didn't appreciate a lot. I also didn' like the fact that are not a lot of stages in France. One thing i really liked is the last stage, with the 100 km Individual Pursuit that determinate the winner of the Tour.

FOURTH PLACE: AjachiChakrabarti
This is a very very good tour and i really liked the prologue and the first stage that are great. I didn't love the 2nd and the 7th stage that are too much long for a tour in the modern cycling. The stages from 9th to 12th are interesting. Taken as whole, this tour is really good.
Thanks for the vote, and the good things you had to say about my tour. Just wanted to point out that the individual pursuit was part of my route, not IamCeeKae's, who also ended their race with a 100-km half-stage ending in front of the palace in Brussels. I take your point about the long stages; the route was long even by 1970s standards. But the Mendrisio stage is supposed to be only 12 laps, rather than 15 (I couldn't figure out how to modify WC circuits), and the MSR stage was the one stage we were allowed that could go up to 330 km.

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kanon16
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Re: Contest #4 - Voting

Post by kanon16 » 19/08/2019, 23:28

FIFTH PLACE: Carlo33
Very strange Tour but very interesting! I've appreciated in particular the last week without high-mountains stages but with a little Roubaix, Liege and Flanders sequentially.
For my taste the mountain stages are too easy: there is one only HC climb and 1° category climb in all the race.. Maybe Peter Sagan could win a Tour like this!

FOURTH PLACE: Xander66
Very good balance between ITT and mountains! I like in particular the general design, the 3 Alpine-stages (Aix les Bains, Loze and Sion) and the final in Napoli. Maybe the stage from Cassino to Napoli could be more demanding and I would have chosen the way from Lettomanoppello or Roccamorice to climb the Blockhaus.

THIRD PLACE: Jajoejoe
Very good Tour! Very well balanced with some stages really brilliant: in particular Gaillard with double Mount Saleve, the Gottardo stage and Aosta.
I don't like so much the stage 22 (Madonna del Colletto) between 3 high-mountains stages...for my taste in that position it could have been a stage for breakaway finishing in Borgo San Dalmazzo after the climb.. The Sanremo stage instead is really wonderful and crazy!

SECOND PLACE: Bocmanis82
I was really undecided for the first place because the following two route are both beautiful! I choose Bocmanis82 for the second place because of a little mistake in the Mendrisio-stage (you did one only lap of the World Championship circuit instead of minimum 3). Anyway the Tour is great and it is beautiful the idea of the 3 hardest climbs in the Europe and also the sequence Livigno, Zoncolan and Bassano! Chapeau!!

FIRST PLACE: Arnorius
Perfect tour. I like very much all the stages, in particular the first week is very well balanced (the stage of Luxembourg, Ballon d'Alsace and Malbun are fantastic); Sallanches is really crazy and the Grande-Dixence a beautiful discovery!
The mountain-stages are very very hard but there is a good balance with the ITT. Bravo!

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jajoejoe
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Re: Contest #4 - Voting

Post by jajoejoe » 20/08/2019, 14:21

Fifth Place: Arnorius

No big transfers between stages was one of the things I look the most at, you succeeded in doing that, when it comes to the stages, it felt a litle bland for me, but still good quality.

Fourth Place: Jadmeal

Again no big transfers so that's great. The tour isn't really balanced but the mountain stages make up for it. Especially the Livigno stage, it's a hot mess and I love it.

Third Place: Bocmanis82

The fact you managed to cover so much ground with such less transfers baffles me, but the same as for Arnorius the stages didn't feel good for me, lots and lots of MtF finish won't do it for me, but still an impressive job. The stage to Livigno is a reall great stage though in my opinion.

Second Place: Kanon16

I'm a big fan of the originality of your route, a lot of towns and cities I haven't seen elsewhere. The stage to Nova Ponente is amongst my favourites i've seen here

First Place: Yellowjersey

Again an Original route with finishes I didn't see often. One stage is my favourite and it's the stage to Manosque, with the Mont Ventoux as a Pass in the first part and then his little brothert the Montagne de Lure to decide this stage.

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Re: Contest #4 - Voting

Post by jibvalverde » 20/08/2019, 23:40

Very difficult to find five courses to insert in the top 5. Many do not even have five stages references to Merckx victories according to the terms indicated at the beginning. Even if it was validated, an arrival in Aosta without the San Carlo, a stage online to refer to an ITT or to make a sprint finish in Strasbourg without going through the Firstplan, is not what was asked for and necessarily, it matters in my choice. Whatever…

FIFTH PLACE : IamCeeKae
Frankly a bit of a default choice. I never thought I'd have to get into the top 5 with your double transfer San Remo-Barcelona then Saint-Girons (!) - Brussels in five days ... Not to mention the stage of Saint-Vincent reference to success on the Giro 1970 with a downhill finish while St. Vincent was the final climb at the time.

FOURTH PLACE : YellowJersey
Impossible to know what are your stages references to Merckx but we hope that Strasbourg was not in the account ^ ^ We will pass on the improbable arrival of Valloire but globally a nice route with an obvious rise to a terrible last week . I would have removed one or two stages of high mountain... But some nice ideas.

THIRD PLACE : Arnorius
Here again a little choice by default. Too much high mountain after the first week (7 in ten days!). But beautiful ideas like the last two mountain stages. At least the departure instructions have been respected.

SECOND PLACE : Bocmanis82
Undeniable winner for me at the start. The only tour that I really liked. A balanced tour, varied, with mythical climbs (Zoncolan, Angliru, Grappa, Ventoux). But a major problem prevents me from putting it n° 1: two stages references do not respect the instructions of bases (Olten was an ITT, Strasbourg passed by the Firstplan, so middle moutain). And that changes everything.

FIRST PLACE : Carlo33
Not necessarily the Tour that had noticed first but I wanted to reward the originality of proposing a GT with only two days of high mountains, especially since the reference stages seem quite faithful to the original (except Strasbourg if it counts).

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Re: Contest #4 - Voting

Post by AjachiChakrabarti » 23/08/2019, 17:48

FIFTH PLACE: kanon16
Pretty good route, with some interesting choices.

FOURTH PLACE: YellowJersey
Some really creative stages, but some go way off the deep end. (I'm looking at you, Stage 11.)

THIRD PLACE: jajojejoe
Nice, balanced race, with realistic stage distances and transfers.

SECOND PLACE: Arnorius
A great second week, and some potentially exciting stages near the finish.

FIRST PLACE: Bocmanis82
I love the efficiency of the race design, and the last week of the race is really well done.

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Re: Contest #4 - Voting

Post by Bocmanis82 » 23/08/2019, 22:58

5th place: Carlo33
Some nice mountains, some good stages in first and second week. I did not like that Belgium is in final week.
4th place: jibvalverde
Very nice first week with cobbles, hilly stages. I would have wished that high mountain stages of 2nd or 3rd week are harder.
3rd place: kanon16
I love that GC contenders have to be in form during the whole tour, difficulty is spread evenly. Brentonico stage is my favorite.
2nd place: Jadmeal
Loving finale of your tour. Reminds me the best Giro routes. Les Arcs, Gottardo stages are nice too. I did not like that the first day was spread in three parts.
1st place: Xander66 maps/tours/view/12516
Clear winner for me. I love that route is hard, especially the final week.

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Re: Contest #4 - Voting

Post by Xander66 » 23/08/2019, 23:43

I had some doubts about even voting for this contest. I feel like a lot of people didn’t even try (or simply forgot?) to follow all the rules that were laid out for this contest (18 Merckx-victories, 23 days of racing etc.)... And my personal opinion is that if you don’t follow these rules, I can’t give you my vote. But there was one route that did catch my eye, I think that he did follow all the rules, or at least I didn’t see anything wrong with it, and it was a race I actually liked as well. So, I’m just going to announce my first place.

My winner: carlo33

I really like the fact that you actually could include Spain in your race, I tried it as well but simply couldn’t find a way to do it. Pretty impressed that you succeeded!
The fact that you only do 2 real high mountain stages makes this tour very interesting for punchers like Alaphillipe, Valverde... They only have to survive on 2 huge climbing days, and can try something in the medium parts. Because of this the final in Belgium, without any high mountains obviously, could still be really enjoyable to watch. Overall you have a pretty exciting parcours, and it’s pretty hard to predict how this would end.



I will understand if I get a penalty for this, since my vote isn’t complete. I simply don’t want to vote for a route that doesn’t have every criteria of the contest included, while having the chance to forget those who did. So I thought this was the fairest option in this situation.

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david.tuci
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Re: Contest #4 - Voting

Post by david.tuci » 25/08/2019, 18:34

Xander66 wrote:
23/08/2019, 23:43
I had some doubts about even voting for this contest. I feel like a lot of people didn’t even try (or simply forgot?) to follow all the rules that were laid out for this contest (18 Merckx-victories, 23 days of racing etc.)... And my personal opinion is that if you don’t follow these rules, I can’t give you my vote. But there was one route that did catch my eye, I think that he did follow all the rules, or at least I didn’t see anything wrong with it, and it was a race I actually liked as well. So, I’m just going to announce my first place.

I TOTALLY agree with you

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Re: Contest #4 - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 25/08/2019, 22:45

Ranking
Bocmanis82 26
Kanon16 15
Carlo33 11
jajojejoe 9
Arnorius 7
jibvalverde 6
AjachiChakrabarti 5
Yellowjersey 3
Xander66 1
Jadmeal -4
IamCeeKay -6

Sorry but we cannot consider Xander66 vote valid.
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emmea90
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Re: Contest #4 - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 25/08/2019, 22:47

Points
Bocmanis82 30
Kanon16 15
Carlo33 10
jajojejoe 5
Arnorius 1

Ranking
bocmanis82 110
luigi.russo 100
Arnorius 76
Joostvandebeek 70
Chiumiento 60
JADmeal 60
alfa 40
pastkaz 35
jibvalverde 30
Xander66 30
mels2309 20
Ikhoudvanfrikandellen 16
Bolieubeach 15
Kanon16 15
Benoit.Guillot 10
tomrenm 10
Carlo33 10
MountainMaster 5
PaStKaz 5
Jajoejoe 5
IamCeeKae 2
yellowjersey 1
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