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- End of Season Classic - VOTING (Deadline on 21/10)

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End of Season Classics - Voting

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emmea90
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End of Season Classics - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 08/10/2018, 16:03

End of Season Classics - Voting

In this topic you can vote for the End of Season Classic, according to the following rules.

PLEASE READ ALL THE POST BEFORE VOTING

How to vote

1 - You have to judge the track according to the requirements.
RideLondon Classic
#1 - Try to redraw the classic to obtaining a route more similar to 2012 olympic route, reducing the chances for the sprinters to get on the finish line but not completely cutting them out. As additional difficulty, you cannot face the same side of a climb more than two times. You cannot move real start and finish line

Clasica San Sebastian
#2 - Murgil Bidea is a beautiful climb, but in the last years makes the race always decided on the last climb. Design a better route for San Sebastian Classics that allows the race to be decided also earlier. You cannot move real start and finish line

Euroeyes Cyclassic
#3 - Same for Ridelondon, find a better route for the classic, but leaving it for the same type of riders. You cannot move real start and finish line

Bretagne Classic
#4 - Improve the race making it more harder than is now, inserting Bretagne Cotes and eventually ribinous. Race should fit a "Gilbert" rider. You cannot move real start and finish line

GP Quebec
#5 - Try to recreate a similar race in a city of similar dimensions in Europe.

GP Montreal
#6 - Try to recreate a similar race in a city of similar dimensions in Europe. The city must not be far from city of contest #5 and must be in the same country.

Il Lombardia
#7 - Draw your best version of a Lombardia finishing in Como (same Lombardia Como finish)
#8 - Draw your best version of a Lombardia finishing in Lecco (same Lombardia Lecco finish)
#9 - Draw your best version of a Lombardia finishing in Bergamo (same Lombardia Bergamo finish)
#10 - Draw your best version of a Lombardia finishing in a place at your choice
All the four Lombardia Races must be for climbers.
2 - You have to write in a post your best FIVE routes, from worse to best, providing a brief motivation for each choice
FIFTH PLACE
(Motivation)

FOURTH PLACE
(Motivation)

THIRD PLACE
(Motivation)

SECOND PLACE
(Motivation)

FIRST PLACE
(Motivation)
How does it work?
- First choice got 6 points, second 4, third 3, fourth 2 and fifth 1 point.
- Presentation bonus grant you 3 points (we will add later with penalties who took the bonus)
- Ranking will be made according to points obtained
- In case of equality I will decide the winner
- YOU CAN'T VOTE FOR YOURSELF
- You can also comment other people's reviews regarding your or other one's routes
- YOU CAN'T CHANGE YOUR VOTE ONCE SUBMITTED

Who can vote?
- Every user that submitted a contest (full points vote)
- Every user in the La Flamme Rouge Staff (Emmea90, Pigna, Sagan99, Matthorse, Nasdon33, Linkinito, Bose12)
- Every user that has registered BEFORE 8th october 2018 and has at least 10 tracks in the editor. In this case, his votes counts half of the points scale

Penalties
- Every user that submitted a contest and doesn't submit a valid vote (with 5 choices and motivations) will get a 10 points penalty for all his routes.
- It's FORBBIDDEN to ask for votes. Who will be caught public or privately asking for a vote to some users will get a 50 points penalty in first instance, then the exclusion from all the contests of the year
- Vote penalties for unpracticable routes will be assigned by staff during this phase

Deadline for vote phase is 21 october 2018, h 23.59

Tracks:
Emilio.Torre-v1: maps/tours/view/10411
Alfa-v1: maps/tours/view/10418 +3 bonus
Chiumiento-v1: maps/tours/view/10484 +3 bonus
Arnorius-v1: maps/tours/view/10463 +3 bonus
JibValverde-v1: maps/tours/view/10422 +3 bonus
Pincoletto-v1: maps/tours/view/10537
Az1234T-v1: maps/tours/view/10649 +3 bonus

PLEASE ALWAYS SPECIFY THE VERSION OF THE ROUTE YOU VOTE FOR WHERE AVAILABLE
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emmea90
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Re: End of Season Classics - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 08/10/2018, 17:09

My reviews and votes

Emilio.torre
Seriously... your routes are the worst thing I've ever saw in each of the contests. London Classic is a disaster: 158 Kms, how they could reduce sprint chances removing the hills and shortening the Kms? The second one also is a big failure... ok for the final, not for the Kms (171? are we in Klasika Ordizia or GP Indurain?) and the middle part is completely not existent. Hamburg classic seems to have been tracked completely random. In Bretagne classic cames the masterpiece: putting his back on GP Plouay. That was not the target. The target was to see climbs and gravels...
For the GP Quebec, as it was supposed to stay in circuit i want to know what the hell is Dwaars Door Sannio and why it should target the same type of Quebec riders. The second one i rate it as a 23 Km race as it's what i saw from the route. Let's go to Lombardia, the true masterpiece. Lombardia of como: 198 Kms. Do you know it's a monument, right? Btw that's not the Muro, it's the Colma. Lombardia #2 probably the only good idea of the whole contest. Lombardia #3. Terrible again. 180 Km.... Lombardia #4, why the hell again in Bergamo? And... did you see where you place the finish line? I would've been shamed to deliver those routes

Alfa
The idea of London seems good but I would have put more Kms are the hills seems pretty easy to climb. Like the choice for San Sebastian even if I would've considered to put Erlaitz before Jaizkibel and not as you did. Hamburg honestly doesn't convince me too much. Good attempt for Bretagne Classic but I expected more than this. Canadian GPs in Greece are ok. Not too much to say for Como Lombardia final, appreciating instead the choice for Lecco one. For Bergamo I would've try to put Valcava closer to finish. The one in Morbegno is maybe not soo good for the climb too hard chosen and the final city (a bit smaller)

chuimiento
Ok for London there, but to try to make a proper selection with so small portion of climb you must go 230-240 Kms. San Sebastian seems good, probably could've been a bit harder in the middle. Like the hamburg final choice, would've added Kms to make it more selective if possible with maybe some extra waseberg in earlier laps. Ok for plouay. The Porto classic is probably harder than Quebec and the Lisbon one is probably softer than Montreal. Nothing to say on Como, good finishes with Lecco and Bergamo, don't like the one in Varese with an hard climb that can froze the race and last 21 Kms without climbs.

Arnorius
London: absolutely love this. Probably don't even need to put extra Kms as climbs are near and steep. For San Sebastian see Alfa. Hamburg doesn't convince me too much, at the moment Chiumiento was better. Best route I saw until now for Bretagne Classic. Ok for Porto and Lisbon, also very similar to the original ones. Nothing to say for Lombardia in Como. Doesn't like too much final in lecco with only two climbs in last 100 Kms. Bergamo probably could've been harder. Brescia route isn't too much good because of the really hard climb on the finish that can freeze the race. Could've been good with another climb after

JibValverde
First thing i notice: lenght. Three are under 200 kms. Appreciate the effort but London one is too short for that loops in final makes some good effects. San sebastian is good and even Hamburg. Don't like too much the choice of Bretagne classic of keeping it all around plouay. Quebec and Montreal has nothing to do with their original routes. For Lombardia in Como, finally a good idea of doing something different even if I would've done Ghisallo (normal), Muro and Superghisallo before Civiglio. Final of Lecco instead is too crap. Bergamo should've been good if you choosed to put San Fermo in the other direction. San Pellegrino is too short and too light.

Pincoletto
London: like it. Pretty good, maybe a bit short. 230 would've been fine. San sebastian: good choice, maybe the best until now. Euroeyes isn't perfect but above average. Expected more in Bretagne classic. The two canadians-fake GP seems pretty ok. Finally a good Como finish that changes what we are used to see now. Lecco is also Good, even Bergamo and i like also Brescia choice. Best route by far

AZ1234T
London is pretty average for the middle part, but I prize you because you are the only one to put the correct numbers of Kms for this. San Sebastian is above average, maybe Jazkibel is too isolated. Euroeyes is above average, maybe one of the bests. Good choices also for Bretagne Classic. For GP Quebec, Sheffield doesn't match too much, better the Huddersfield for GP Montreal. Lombardias: Como is basically same final, Lecco has a good idea with Valcava on the other side. Bergamo has a good climb but can freeze too much final. Varese choice is indeed too flat in final


For the reasons above, my ranking is

Pincoletto 6 points
Arnorius 4 points
AZ1234T 3 points
Chiumiento 2 points
Alfa 1 point
JibValverde
Emilio.torre (seriously?)
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marco.berri
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Re: End of Season Classics - Voting

Post by marco.berri » 08/10/2018, 21:39

5°= Alfa
4°=chuimiento
3°=jibvalverde
2°=Arnorius
1°=Pincoletto
Here is my track. I'm always late for contests, but you can have a look.

maps/tours/view/10661

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marco.berri
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Re: End of Season Classics - Voting

Post by marco.berri » 11/10/2018, 23:27

I forgot motivations....

5° Alfa-v1: I like london classic,bretagne classic.
In S.Sebastian there's a descent too dangerous (Ulia). it would be a better choice making that climb in the opposite sense. euroyes hasn't enough denivel. 750m for 245 km means it's too simple for sprinters.I like gp Athens, while the other one is designed in streets to narrow. lombardia (como) has the descent near Pontida totally unpaved and the lasts 80 km are the same of the real race. Lombardia(lecco) is good but I don't understand why you put the most difficult climbs (Valcava and sormano) at the beginning while in the finals kms it's just hilly your draw. I really like the one wich finishes in bergamo and the other in morbegno. they're well balanced.

4°chuimiento: london, bretagne and hamburg are ok. san sebastian hasn't that kind of finish required. Porto and lisbona are two good choises, anyway the track shouldn't pass throught some narrow streets(this happens in lisbona, porto is pretty good). I really like Lombardia(como) and lombardia (varese ) with the mount mondonico( a perfect choice). also the other 2 are nearly perfect.

3°jibvalverde: I like london classic, bretagne classic and hambourg euroyes even if it's too dangerous in some passages.i don't like so much san sebastian, becouse of some useless cotes in the middle of the track. the
2 GPs are perfect. i like all the lombardia except the one wich finishes in lecco. passo san marco at the beginning is useless.

2° Arnorius :London, san sebastian are pretty good . Bretagne classic is wonderful, hamburg euroeyes isn't enough tough in the first part. Well balanced GPs .I really like lombardia(como) , even if the last km are the same of the real race.Also the others are really nice.

1°Pincoletto: Just fantastic. i would say that it has no sense drawing a part of san sebastian in france , but that's only my opinion.

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Arnorius
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Re: End of Season Classics - Voting

Post by Arnorius » 12/10/2018, 12:25

I have to say, i gave all races a score from 1 to 10 and the sum of the three best players their routes were almost equal...
So small details have put the ranking as it is.

5) JibValverde
RideLondon: Don't think these small hills in the end will do something against a sprint...
San Sebastian: I think this is way too hard, some steep climbs in the middle of the race that have dangereously small descends. By the way your last climb is not even a road...
Euroeyes: Would be nice... If Kosterberg was a road :p
Bretagne Classic: Hmmm. I understand the critics of emmea, but still a better/harder then some of the rest. At least you made it hard :)
Quebec: This should have been your Montreal ;)
Montreal: Really not hard enough
Como: hmm this Civiglio side is not that hard. Maybe you should have put san fermo after it, your race could have had some more km's
Lecco: Don't like it
Bergamo: Not really hard this race
Other: Distance... And i miss the hardness of lombardia too

4) Pincoletto
RideLondon: By far the best.
San Sebastian: Also with the best. Also using the french basque country.
Euroeyes: Possibly the worst. Just because of the dangereous descent towards Waseberg...
Bretagne Classic: I miss the hills
Quebec: Ok
Montreal: Way too easy
Como: I dont understand why you put a local lap in this race? Why not just the finish like normal.
Lecco: Same as Como, i don't understand why you put this lap.
Bergamo: Same again
Other: This one is nice

3) Alfa
RideLondon: I don't see how this is harder then the original, Only one hill in the last 70 km and 6 hills in total...
San Sebastian: Ok race for San Sebastian, with the best.
Euroeyes: Only once Waseberg? :(
Bretagne Classic: I don't see a lot of hills...
Quebec: Nice to make a race in greece, but do'nt know if all these roads you used are 100% race-safe :p
Montreal: Very nice, the best Montreal of all;)
Como: Don't understand the Superghallo thing, but the race is ok. Maybe you did it to have something defferent then the original.
Lecco: Nice race, maybe not super hard but riders like Gilbert have won this race in the past, so they still have a chnce in this one.
Bergamo: Not bad
Other: Nope... I wouldn't go to 2000 meters hight this time of the year in a race...

2) AZ1234T
RideLondon: Still 50 flat km's after the last hill...
San Sebastian: That last descend... :|
Euroeyes: Simple idea, but there is not much more you could have done :p
Bretagne Classic: One of the better ones.
Quebec: Above average
Montreal: Good, just your finish line is in a weird place :p
Como: Nothing to say about it :)
Lecco: Nice one. Just one remark, maybe you could have put a small hill in the end like in the real Bergamo finish.
Bergamo: Love it
Other: Last climb is ok, but before that you need more climbs in the final...

1) Chumiento
RideLondon: Still a long flat section after the hills.
San Sebastian: Long climbs during the race to end with a shorter climb, one of the best.
Euroeyes: Also with the best ones, just because you did nothing wrong :)
Bretagne Classic: Seems okay, a loop in Bretagne and some hills, maybe could've been harder but i have seen worse.
Quebec: Good one, only don't understand why you take the smaller roads in the end.
Montreal: The route is really not good at this one. I have the same city and there were a lot of options away from the city centre. This finish is just riciulous with those cobbles.
Como: Lipomo makes it somehow different, so i like it that you take the risk of a diffirent climb.
Lecco: Not much to add :)
Bergamo: Same
Other: Still almost 20 km after the last climb, maybe that could've been better.

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Re: End of Season Classics - Voting

Post by jibvalverde » 15/10/2018, 13:15

Arnorius wrote:
12/10/2018, 12:25
5) JibValverde
RideLondon: Don't think these small hills in the end will do something against a sprint...
San Sebastian: I think this is way too hard, some steep climbs in the middle of the race that have dangereously small descends. By the way your last climb is not even a road...
Euroeyes: Would be nice... If Kosterberg was a road :p
Bretagne Classic: Hmmm. I understand the critics of emmea, but still a better/harder then some of the rest. At least you made it hard :)
Quebec: This should have been your Montreal ;)
Montreal: Really not hard enough
Como: hmm this Civiglio side is not that hard. Maybe you should have put san fermo after it, your race could have had some more km's
Lecco: Don't like it
Bergamo: Not really hard this race
Other: Distance... And i miss the hardness of lombardia too
My last climb of San Sebastian is most of the time a road but cronoscalada make wrong the last 200m by going on right. The wright road was left and it was a real road. But, idon't understand your opinion on the Kosterberg. It's not a road for cars, yes, but for cycling. So, they can climb it without any problem.

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Re: End of Season Classics - Voting

Post by jibvalverde » 15/10/2018, 14:26

chuimiento, i've a problem with your Tour, there is ony two versions of Lombardia. Are the other private ? Cause, for now, i can't value yours

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Re: End of Season Classics - Voting

Post by jibvalverde » 15/10/2018, 15:45

5 - Chimunento

RideLondon: Double climb of Leith Hill change all. Without it, it would be too easy. This way, it’s promissing.
San Sebastian: It’s too easy for a Clasica. Arkale is not tough enough and Jaizkibek it too far from finish.
Euroeyes: A lot too easy.
Bretagne Classic: Not so bad. Last 70kms are maybe too esay, it miss you two climbs.
Quebec: Like Arnorius.
Montreal: Way too easy for rempalce the tough GP Montreal.
Como: Classic finish but a tougher departure. Not really a fan but it could be a success.
Lecco: Not a fan of Bocco or Galbiate.
Bergamo: Three big and tough climbs before Citta Alta. Good idea !
Other: 21kms to go after last climb, it’s way too much. Too bad because your race if welel traced before that.

4 - AZ1234T

RideLondon: Not bad with two big laps and four climbs not really hard but though enough.
San Sebastian: Nobody will try to leave far from the finish, too much flat between the Jaizkibel and Munea. And it was the order.
Euroeyes: Not fan of just make more climbs of Waserberg but you succeed to make the race tougher.
Bretagne Classic: Many climbs but a lot are not difficult enough to make a race for « Gilbert type ».
Quebec: A good circuit with two tough cimbs but some flat after to leave a chance for others
Montreal: a beautifuk race too with a only but long climb. Not so bad
Como: an unsurprising finish despite a tough departure.
Lecco: not fan to Valcala in last climb.
Bergamo: not fan of Valcala (always^^) but good idea to put Croce dei Monti after. With both, there’s no necessity of Citta Alta.
Other: Ony one real climb in last 70kms, it’s not very good even if Alpe Tedesco is fine.

3 – Alfa

RideLondon: Double climb of Box Hill, double climb of Ranmore, it is not bad but it is especially the ascent of Tigley in the end which hardens the race. Really good.
San Sebastian: Not bad I think the start is too hard compared to the finish with 30km without difficulty to finish the race.
Euroeyes: I do not see the overall difference with the original. At the same time, difficult to do better ^^
Bretagne Classic: Really not hard enough. It's more for a Matthews than for a Gilbert ...
Quebec: Nice circuit, original but really not hard enough.
Montreal: Very good circuit, difficult (but maybe even more in the opposite direction). I regret, however, the too straight forward lines, not so much in the spirit of Montreal.
Como: Too close to the original despite Superghisallo.
Lecco: Valcala-Ghisallo-Sormano, it's classic but I would have preferred the complete rise of Villa Vergano rather than the sequence with Calolziocorte.
Bergamo: Except for two small mistakes in the final (weird complete lap and finish 10m after corner), nice course. The first two difficulties are a little superfluous.
Other: Great route with San Marco but Civio is too hard to serve as the last climb. It blocks the whole race. It would have taken a shorter climb of 2-3km.

2 – Pincoletto

RideLondon: the best RideLondon for me with many climbs but not too much and not too hard. Perfect.
San Sebastian: Great finish (i’ve the same ^^) buti think it’s a little too simple in the first 80kms.
Euroeyes: It was not really simple but you succeed to make it tougher so well done.
Bretagne Classic: too simple. It’s more for a Sagan than a Gilbert.
Quebec: great circuit in Barcelona with two climbs in Montjuic. Simple, not very original but effective
Montreal: Much too simple.
Como: the best Como Lombardia at my opinion. I like superghisallo after sormano and Civiglio out. You succeed to do the finish i wanted to do first.
Lecco: Beautiful roads without classsics climbs but traced for a offensive race
Bergamo: Not fan of Valcala as big climb in the final.
Other: Just perfect.

1 – Arnorius

RideLondon: Your climbs are too easy, the sprinters will pass without doubt. As for the paved roads, your first sector passes twice in the same intersection. But it’s traced with good rythm and the course should be intersting.
San Sebastian: Not a fan of Jaizkibel-Erlaitz but it has the merit of being effective.
Euroeyes: If you want to make a race so easy, so do not put climb at all
Bretagne Classic: Simply perfect. Paths, beautiful climbs and a varied race.
Quebec: Very good, effective
Montreal: Even better than Porto. Good climbs and a course open to many sort of riders.
Como: a good route but i’vd have left Civiglio in last climb, it’s tough enough
Lecco: very beautiful, with many climb that i didn’t know
Bergamo: San Fermo-Gallo-Ganda, it’s effective and very intersting
Other: Madonna delle Cornelle or Maddalena, it was a good idea but, both, it’s many too much. Riders wouldn’t move before the last climb. It’s still very good

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