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Winter Stage Races - Voting

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emmea90
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Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 14/03/2018, 10:09

Contest #2 - Winter Stage Races (Category 2) - Voting

In this topic you can vote for the Winter Stage Races, according to the following rules.

PLEASE READ ALL THE POST BEFORE VOTING
How to vote

1 - You have to judge the track according to the requirements
We propose to merge those races in a mini grand-tour of 13 stages, starting from Friday 2 and ending on Wednesday 14 March 2018

Rules to follow
- You must start in one of the districts near Paris
- You must end in center Italy, preferably on Adriatico
- Col d'Eze must be inserted in the route with Nice hosting a stage finish
- The six stages before Thursday 8 must be set ALL in France, the six stages after Thursday 8 must be set ALL in Italy
- You had to take into account that race are settled in early march, so, for example, there is snow limit. You have to avoid high altitudes. You cannot go above 1700 meters in French stages and 1800 meters in Italian stages.
- You must insert at least one mountain stage in france and at least one mountain stage in italy
- Those races are stages races but are also a preparation races for Sanremo. You must provide GC battle with Mountains and Time Trial but the focus should also be about mixed / medium mountain stages making riders like Gilbert, Alaphilippe, Kwiatkowski the chance to feature in at least 3-4 stages.
2 - You have to write in a post your best FIVE routes, from worse to best, providing a brief motivation for each choice
FIFTH PLACE
(Motivation)

FOURTH PLACE
(Motivation)

THIRD PLACE
(Motivation)

SECOND PLACE
(Motivation)

FIRST PLACE
(Motivation)
How does it work?
- First choice got 6 points, second 4, third 3, fourth 2 and fifth 1 point.
- Presentation bonus grant you 3 points (we will add later with penalties who took the bonus)
- Ranking will be made according to points obtained
- In case of equality I will decide the winner
- YOU CAN'T VOTE FOR YOURSELF
- You can also comment other people's reviews regarding your or other one's routes
- YOU CAN'T CHANGE YOUR VOTE ONCE SUBMITTED

Who can vote?
- Every user that submitted a contest (full points vote)
- Every user in the La Flamme Rouge Staff (Emmea90, Pigna, Sagan99, Matthorse, Nasdon33, Linkinito, Bose12)
- Every user that has registered BEFORE 13 march 2018 and has at least 10 tracks in the editor. In this case, his votes counts half of the points scale

Penalties
- Every user that submitted a contest and doesn't submit a valid vote (with 5 choices and motivations) will get a 10 points penalty for all his routes.
- It's FORBBIDDEN to ask for votes. Who will be caught public or privately asking for a vote to some users will get a 50 points penalty in first instance, then the exclusion from all the contests of the year
- Vote penalties for unpracticable routes will be assigned by staff during this phase

Deadline for vote phase is 28 march 2018, h 23.59 (two weeks)

Submitted Routes
Emilio.torre: maps/tours/view/8401
Alfa: maps/tours/view/8397
Simone.galbiati: maps/tours/view/8399
Pereiroseleccion: maps/tours/view/8389
Crisborto11: maps/tours/view/8412
Pierluca.ferretto: maps/tours/view/8393
Belgian4444: maps/tours/view/8406
Mauro: maps/tours/view/8442
Ded-Moroz: maps/tours/view/8434
AZ1234T: maps/tours/view/8410
Rmax85: maps/tours/view/8452
railxmig: maps/tours/view/8534
pabloagb: maps/tours/view/8549
Xiky: maps/tours/view/8560
grimsel99: maps/tours/view/8470
mels2309: maps/tours/view/8480
tomremn: maps/tours/view/8507
lorenzo.tripodi: maps/tours/view/8559
Rdz1201: maps/tours/view/8591
Dennis1107: maps/tours/view/8409
jibvalverde: maps/tours/view/8572
Paganini: maps/tours/view/8472
Pesallu: maps/tours/view/8438
antoinvds: maps/tours/view/8641
mike4296: maps/tours/view/8433
pr8: maps/tours/view/8493
lorenzo.ciconte: maps/tours/view/8654
alexandre.philippon: maps/tours/view/8650
Sagan99: maps/tours/view/8583
IamCeeKae: maps/tours/view/8684
Bouzyboubou: maps/tours/view/8398
ciro.abete: maps/tours/view/8407
xflyinghighx: maps/tours/view/8688
CaramelMou: maps/tours/view/8520
Xander66: maps/tours/view/8432
Gamers21: maps/tours/view/8696
Taaramae_crack: maps/tours/view/8608
matteo.zwaenepoel: maps/tours/view/8625
Pincoletto: maps/tours/view/8612
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emmea90
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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 14/03/2018, 10:30

Please let me know if all the routes are public, otherwise i'll open them for you.
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Belgian4444
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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by Belgian4444 » 14/03/2018, 11:42

FIFTH PLACE: Pereiroseleccion

Not a lot of opportunities for real climbers, as most high mountains are several km's before the finish line, but plenty chances for hill specialists. Length of the ITT's is balanced with the difficulty of the route.

FOURTH PLACE: Ded-Moroz

The ITT up on the Col d'Eze seems a bit wasted. Fun, but the climb isn't hard enough to make some significant impact on the standings if you look at the route. Not really sure why you made the detour in one stage for one white road (also, I don't really get why so many people included 10+ km of white roads in some routes. It adds barely anything imo apart from getting your GC decided by mechanicals). Good profiles overall.

THIRD PLACE: Pr8

Fun profile for stage 1, even though I dislike starting with a criterium. Smart to include Col de Lagarde & Pas de la Frache in the MV stage, as departing from Sault is generally a bad idea (it's very easy for pro's).

SECOND PLACE: Lorenzo.tripodi

Very interesting stage race. Since it's in preparation of M-S, it might have been better to drop one mountain stage for a more hill-focused stage (and shorten the ITT) or end one flat stage with a hill sprint. Great usage of a white road: included in a climb. That's how it should be imo if you have to use one.

FIRST PLACE: mike4296

Even though I wouldn't have minded an extra sprint stage: you did what was asked. A hilly stage race with GC battle in the mountains and ITT and executed it perfectly.

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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by Alfa » 14/03/2018, 13:31

Fifth place - 1 point : IamCeeKae
I like stages of Mont d'Ore and Nice.

Fourth place - 2 points : Sagan99
The 11th stage is very cool, and the track is balanced for every type of rider.

Third place - 3 points : Pr8
Very nice stages and cool TT

Second place - 4 points: Ded-Moroz
A lot of diversity in the stages

First place - 6 points: Belgian4444
I really love this track, especially the stage of 80 km because there would be lots of attacks.

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simone.galbiati
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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by simone.galbiati » 14/03/2018, 17:55

FIFTH PLACE
ded - moroz
good route, i like the CTT but there are some stages that can be designed waay better.

FOURTH PLACE
belgian4444
is a good, hard route. two hard stages one after another is a good idea, but a final ITT of 30km will kill the emotions in the day before

THIRD PLACE
crisborto1
it's a very hard route. the end in Filottrano is always a good idea. it's not in the first or second place because 40km of ITT is a little bit too much.

SECOND PLACE
ciro.abete
i like the chronoprologue ad the end in col de lagarde d'apt. using the liguria's mountains is also a good idea.

FIRST PLACE
lorenzo.tripodi
i like so much the end in monte nerone, it is a new climb and is very very steep. the other stages are well balanced between flat, medium and hard stages. good tour.

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IamCeeKae
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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by IamCeeKae » 14/03/2018, 19:40

Fifth place, Dennis1107 : maps/tours/view/8409
This race is well mapped. You can already see from most stage profiles where the key moments will occur. The many medium mountain stages make for great variety in the stage race, although i’d have recommended not to have so many (especially high) mountain stages to end on top of a mountain. To have the 4th stage already finish on top of an outer category mountain seems a bit too early in a stage race with 13 stages. Despite that, stage four is still one of the better ones in the race.
Another stage to enjoy is stage 11. In this course, going from Pistoria to Bologna - San Luca, the riders will have to cope with four 2nd category hills in the last 30 kilometers, while the stage itself is only as short as 130 kilometers.

Fourth place, Rdz1201: maps/tours/view/8591
Although the length of the stage race could’ve been a tad shorter, the profile of the course is very satisfying to look at. The creator made a good choice to have a finish on top of a hill or mountain in stages on every terrain (flat, hill, mountain). A point of critique is the distance of most stages. They’re often quite long, and are only compensated by the race having not one, but two individual time trials of not longer than 35 kilometers.
Concerning stage 6, the Col d’Eze is not a 1st category mountain, but a 2nd category hill.
Stage 11 is well-made, and similar to stage 13 of the 2017 official Tour de France, where the riders had to climb three 1st category climbs over the course of just 100 kilometers.

Third place, mels2309: maps/tours/view/8480
In this stage race, there’s a good build-up towards the first high mountain stage, covering five stages. It gives to the sprinters and punchers the chance to get the yellow jersey first. The total length of the stage race is right underneath the 2000 kilometers. It could’ve a little shorter, but it is also fine as it is.
The 1st stage already makes for an exciting start of the race. The finish seems to be on top of an ascend that is just not difficult enough to be a categorized hill, but also not easy for sprinters to get on top of. The same goes for stage 10 Anyone could wear the leaders jersey in the 2nd stage.
Throughout the race there are flat stages, but also the ones ending in climbs. Everyday there’s a chance for another selection of riders to win the stage, which makes this race all the more exciting.

Second place, Pereiroseleccion: maps/tours/view/8389
Often, a stage race of similar length as this one, has at least one rest day, and the creator has probably put that in mind. Nice is both the starting and finishing place of a stage, and in the middle of the stage race calendar. The length of this stage race is approximately 1850 kilometers, which is excellent. Not too long, not too short, and still able to cover all terrains by their likings. A stage doesn’t have to be long to be exciting.
There’s a point of critique, for the lack of intermediate sprints, only the climbs are categorized by the creator.
Then again, there’s an excellent variety of stage length. Most are quite short, but there’s always one to stand out, including the queen stage from Digne-les-Bains to Nice.

First place, Mike4296: maps/tours/view/8433
This stage race once again has a lot of variety. There’s great balance between flat and mountains. The 3rd stage is very early to finish on top of a high mountain, but that shouldn’t be a big concern, as the punchers (and perhaps some sprinters) already had a chance for the yellow jersey in the stage of the day before.
A point of concern is the length of most stages. Although there are two time trials, the stage race still covers more than 2000 kilometers, and there aren’t any normal stages of underneath 150 kilometers.
Despite that, the race is very well-balanced. Most profiles already show how smooth most stages are. There isn’t any stage in which the creator felt the need to approximately 10 challenging climbs over the course of the last 50 kilometers, apart from stage ten.
This stage race, by me, is granted the 1st place of this 2nd contest.

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antoninvds
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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by antoninvds » 14/03/2018, 20:03

Hi !
There is my vote for this contest :

5th
railxmig: I really like the Mont Gerbier de Jonc finish and i find the route quite equilibrate, but I find it too mountainous.

4th
CaramelMou: I find this route quite equilibrate too, I like the Mont Faron finish and the Nice's stage. However, some stages are too long and the all route is too mountainous.

3rd
Mike4296: The three first stages are just like I could have imagined : Chateau-Chinon and Mont Pilat are so good to see right here. Everything is possible in that route but the two stages are less interesting than the eleven others in my opinion.

2nd
xflyinghighx: A very interesting route with a great start in Fontainebleau and fine ways, like white roads or the TT in Monaco. I also like the stage around Mont Ventoux, with three different ways to climb the monster. I enjoyed it for real.

1st
taaramae_crack: Well, ok, nothing more to say, except probably the Turini climb which I think really difficult in March (my father attempted to climb it at the end of March, he came back with a snow storm...). The TT in Brioude is really great and the two finishes at Grasse and Siena could be very nice, even more than real mountain stages. Congratulations !

That's all for me,
Antonin :beer:

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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by xiky » 15/03/2018, 2:13

5th railxmig
Good ITT / mountain relationship. There are many stages that favor distant attacks. The route gives opportunity to many different cyclists. The stages are not conditioned to each other, for example, there is no hard climb final or an ITT after a stage that can be loaned to carry out attacks from a distance.
I have penalized a bit that there are so many hard climbs finals, because, although they do not individually condition the stage that precedes them, all of them can favor the fact that the riders reserve for these stages.

4th Pereiroseleccion
Many stages that favor attacks from afar. More or less there is variety in the stages and offer opportunity to several styles of riders. The stages do not condition each other.
On the negative, I think he needs a little more ITT.

3th Mike4296
The ITT / mountain relationship is good. Many stages that favor attacks from afar. The route offers opportunity to different riders. There are many original stages, with climbs little crossed in the race.
As a negative note, the location of the San Giacomo stage can condition the great mid-mountain stage of the previous day.

2th Dennis1107
Good ITT / mountain relationship. Variety of type of stages. It favors to have attacks from afar. The hardness is well distributed throughout the race.
As a negative, I think the hard final climb of the stages of St Alberto di Butrio and Bologna, can favor the fact that the stage is reduced to that final climb.

1th Paganini
I think it's the most complete tour of all (I even like it more than mine, haha). The ITT / mountain relationship is good. It lends itself to attacks from afar. There is no abuse of final hard climbs. There are stages for all types of cyclist. The stages are arranged so that they do not condition each other. The hardness is distributed throughout the race ...

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mike4296
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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by mike4296 » 15/03/2018, 12:25

Hey folks. As always, to make the evaluation easier I have a few points that I think were important to be respected, in order to draw an appropriate route:
- Ok to start with a prologue (max 8 km), a team time trial or a flat/hilly stage
- Not more than 4 hard stages in a row (medium/high mountain)
- Two or three mountain stages, not less nor more
- At least 1 uphill finish in mountain stages
- Between 1 and 3 long stages over 200 km
- No starting or, more importantly, finish lines placed in small villages (Duranus is a funny name, but come on... :asd: )
- No stages with more than 5000 meters of vertical gap
- Time trials: between 25 and 45 total km with at least a 20 km time trial for specialists (the time trial on Col d'Eze is nice, but specialists get a little bit penalized...), and, in case of single time trial, not more than 35 km

The only routes who respect these points are the ones of Pincoletto and Pr8, so I had to place in 5th, 4th and 3th position races that have some basical issue.

Fifth place: mels2309
The medium level of the stages is quite good (even if Sestola is way too hard compared with the other 12); the presence of just one stage over 200 km and only 20 km of time trial penalize the race imho, but it worth my 5th place anyway.

Fourth place: taaramae_crack
Here the problem consists in the 6 consecutive medium-high mountain stages in a row; however, after a closer look, I think Sestri Levante could be considered flatter than hillier, so that's ok.
Anyway, I really like your medium mountain stages; if you had placed a true high mountain summit finish, maybe you'd have achieved a better place in my evaluation.

Third place: Paganini
I really like Nice and Boreon stages, even if the second one is placed maybe too early in the race. But imho the best stage of the race, and one of the best stages finals of the contest (both Poggio San Romualdo and Monte San Vicino climbs are pretty useless) is Sarnano's one. It's a pity you decided to finish with an easy circuit in San Benedetto del Tronto (and a long single time trial), but that's just my opinion...

Second place: Pincoletto
Ok the first three stages, Lyon is one of my favourite hilly stages of the contest. Ok the first time trial, great Montepulciano, I like the idea of giving credit to an almost unknown summit finish like Rifugi di Valsorda followed by a "muri" stage and a final time trial, even though I'd have opted for harder routes - everything is a bit too much easy imho. Moreover, I'm not sure Donoratico worths a medium mountain classification.

First place: Pr8
An almost perfect route. Very good first stage with an easy uphill finish, the alternative Ventoux is an interesting idea, Cerreto Laghi and Poggio san Romualdo fit perfectly into the route, right amount of time trial kilometers. Just one issue: all high mountain stages are summit finishes.

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lorenzo.tripodi
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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by lorenzo.tripodi » 15/03/2018, 18:39

FIFTH PLACE : Crisborto11 maps/tours/view/8412

Interesting race, I like the stage of the walls dedicated to the late Michele Scarponi. Perhaps too much time trial, for a route that is not extremely hard.

FOURTH PLACE : Paganini maps/tours/view/8472

Truly a great race; the first mountain stopper is really hard. Spectacular arrival downhill in Sarnano. Right time trial due to the hardness of the route.

THIRD PLACE : Dennis1187 maps/tours/view/8409

It is simply a pleasure for the eyes. Very hard starting from the stage on the Chalet Reynard. The stage in Nice is simply spectacular, short and unpredictable. Very balanced all the way, with the addition of the tear of San Luca and the Marches walls.

SECOND PLACE : Belgian4444 maps/tours/view/8406

Good. The initial prologue with the porphyry is from people who can do it well, the path continues with flat and wide valleys and moves; in Italy you gave the maximum with the hard stage of Castelluccio and especially the next stage, very short, very hard and very spectacular.

FIRST PLACE : Simone.galbiati maps/tours/view/8399

I chose this path because it is the most balanced I have seen. One of the most beautiful stops is that of Nice, long, tortuous and very unpredictable. But one of the great reasons for the choice was the time trial on the Alpe di Poti. Really very good.

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emmea90
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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 16/03/2018, 15:09

Reviews - Part 1

Penalty Scale
- Unpracticable start/finish/stage portions: 5 points (for each one)
- Violation of UCI Rules: 10 points
- Not placing sprints and/or refuel: 3 points
- Long transfers: 5 points (for each one)
- Violation of the contest rules: 50 points penalty (maximum)

Emilio.torre
I hope this route was a joke... because... FIVE CRONOS IN 13 STAGES? IS THIS SERIOUS? There are also two stages above 240 Km limit, so two violations of UCI rules. The third is having a TTT just past the first third of the race. Let's go in the details. A 7 Kms TTT is just a stupid nonsense. Too short to be considered a TTT. The 2nd is ok despite the fact there is not a single climb in first two days, so no KOM jersey assigned. Arriving inline in Broully is at limit of practicability. The stage of col d'Eze is another joke... only 70 km and bad drawn. The transfer Nizza-Camaiore.... is |ghirar and |giur and |burin |burin |burin for not speaking about having TTT after ITT in the middle of the race. The one you called "blockhaus" isn't also the Blockhaus. Porto Sant'Elpidio stage is a good idea with a bad realization. It seems that you had used 13 stages you had already ready putting them together with this really poor final outcome (also you delivered the really first day). Please show some respect for the contest and the other competitors next time. No presentation bonus, 38 points penalty.

Alfa
I don't really honestly like the idea of a finish on Monopoli. From the map it's clear the long transfer and i don't even need to explain where it is, hopefully. The first problem here is also that you don't have the KOM jersey in group for the first four days. I think Laffrey is not a good finish. Too hard, bad placed, it will neutralize probably the race. I like more the use in a stage like Reallon one but you are literally going from nothing to too hard in a few stages. Good choice for the Pontis. Fayence is good but it's coming after two hard stages, sounds like wasted. Choice for Eze stage seems not so good as expected. Perone stage is too hard and it will cost you 5 points penalty for finishing in the middle of nowhere. Rifugio Sibilla is clearly not practicable as finish line. The other really bad issue there is that last three days are really, really, really easy and the finish of the race results bad.
3 pt presentation bonus, 10 points penalty.

Simone.Galbiati
Stage 1: Boussy-en-Othe has only 777 inhabitants. It's clear you can't end here a stage. Stage 2: do you really want to end with a mass sprint in this alley? https://prnt.sc/is38rr. The next one is even better because it finishes in a service road on the railway. https://prnt.sc/is3b1k
In Pra loup stage: what the hell is this? Are riders suppose to go up/down and clash on the same climb? https://prnt.sc/is3dcq. The finish in Genova is on an anonymous road with no space. It's not a penalty for this, but it's ugly. As technical point of view the route doesn't say me too much until stages 11-12 (and the useless 13th flat stage)
No presentation bonus, 20 points penalty.

(updating)
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mels2309
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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by mels2309 » 16/03/2018, 15:24

I’ve started with looking at the finish places/lines of the stages. You need to be aware of the situation that on the finish place there has to be a podium, a stand and the commentators boxes. That’s why the Tour organisation rarely finishes on the big cols. Most of the routes has finish lines on places where the organisation would never put the finish line. After looking at the finish lines, there were a few routes left and the most exciting route with good finish places will get the most points.

Fifth Place - 1 point: Rdz1201 (maps/tours/view/8591)
Not all the finish places were that good, but I like some of your stages. The stages towards Vézelay and the Col du Beal are really exciting. Maybe one more medium mountain stage instead of a flat stage would’ve been better.

Fourth Place - 2 points: Pincoletto (maps/tours/view/8612)
Maybe you had to make the first stage around Paris. The stage to Station de Valdrôme is a really good one. I like your medium mountain stages, although the stages are a little bit too long.

Third Place - 3 points: Pabloagb (maps/tours/view/8549)
It’s a good build up towards to two mountain stages with a combination of medium mountain and flat stages. Also good to see that you don’t end the race in San Benedetto del Tronto but somewhere else. I really like your first stage towards Auxerre with a little uphill finish and a good finish place.

Second Place - 4 points: Pr8 (maps/tours/view/8493)
After the Tour Down Harder, another good race from Pr8. The only thing is that maybe 3 mountain stages is too much and too hard. I like the alternative finish on the Ventoux.

First Place - 6 points: Dennis1107 (maps/tours/view/8409)
I was really happy to see your stages. Your stage finish places are the best ones. Avallon, Orange, Alessandria – it’s really good. You have a good balance between, flat, medium and mountain stages. You also decided not to finish in San Benedetto del Tronto, I can appreciate that. For me, this is the best Winter Stage Race. Well done Dennis!

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emmea90
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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 16/03/2018, 22:28

Reviews - Part 2

Pereiroseleccion
Sprints are missing from the stages. I like the first part with Broully and Nice stage. Turini is hard but in that position is pretty fine. Probably crono is too few. Chieti stage is good for the impact on the route. It's a route well-drawed that support the attacks from far with an amazing finish in Fermo.
No presentation bonus, 3 points penalty

Crisborto11
Ok for stage 1. The second stage, a TTT, cannot finish in this alley https://prnt.sc/is8ery. The arrive of Albepierre-Bredons is in the middle of nowhere in a city of 228 inhabitants. The arrive of Montpellier is there. A mass sprint on a dirt road. http://prntscr.com/is8fv2. The same for Frejus, are you serious? Col d'Eze is good, but the track asked NICE HOSTING A STAGE FINISH. So not summit of Eze. And this is the bad penalty you can get because you didn't comply with the contest rules - 50 points. In Genova stage you finished DIRECTLY INTO THE SEA. On Cascetto you drive on a route that is not practicable. Foligno is still better because you put a stage finish (mass sprint) in a private residential alley. In the following stage you categorized as 1° cat KOM A TUNNEL. A DAMN TUNNEL. Fortunately for you this is not going to get a penalty and the finish is ok. In vasto you put the finish probably a 20 man sprint at the end of this road http://prntscr.com/is8kx1. Filottrano is at least good.
No presentation bonus, 90 points penalty.

Pierluca.ferretto
The first thing i notice is that there are no stages > 200 Kms. This is good in general for a preparation race because there was an abuse in the previous races but not in this case. I like the choice of Chablis with one cote and the stage of Dijon even if the cote is at limit. Font d'Urle is a good choice and Draguignan remember me the classics Nice stage (the arrive is at limit, choose a bigger road). Ok for Nice stage even if I would've climbed Eze from classic side. First penalty is there on Forte dei Marmi where finish is put there http://prntscr.com/is8tvf. Catria stage is good but maybe too heavy compared to what there was before. Gravel road on descent is dangerous. Good choice for Montelupone stage, then ITT. Maybe last two inline stage are too much compared to the rest of the route. I will give only 2 presentation bonus points because of no images.
2 presentation bonus, 5 points penalty
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Ded-Moroz
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Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by Ded-Moroz » 18/03/2018, 11:06

Fifth Place - 1 point: CaramelMou maps/tours/view/8520
This is a good route, but the first mountain stage is early.

Fourth Place - 2 points: Rdz1201 maps/tours/view/8591
Good balance between ITT and mountains, but first sprint stage is late.

Third Place - 3 points: Taaramae_crack maps/tours/view/8608
Great route, but mountain finishes is low.

Second Place - 4 points: Belgian4444 maps/tours/view/8406
You have cobble sections in the prolouge. Is not a dangerous? If it isn't, route will be ideal.

First Place - 6 points: pr8 maps/tours/view/8493
Excellent route! Great sprint and hiily stages, well balance between ITT and mountain!

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Belgian4444
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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by Belgian4444 » 18/03/2018, 17:57

Ded-Moroz wrote:
18/03/2018, 11:06
Second Place - 4 points: Belgian4444 maps/tours/view/8406
You have cobble sections in the prolouge. Is not a dangerous? If it isn't, route will be ideal.
Ah, yes maybe that's not clear if you've never been there. You can barely call them cobbles in terms of difficulty, but they are technically cobbles so I added that Image

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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by xflyinghighx » 21/03/2018, 13:37

Here are my choices for the best route designs.

First of all. hat was a long list. Before reviewing the stages in detail, I elimnated a lot of routes for the following reasons.

- too many long stages (more than one stage abobe 230km or more than 4 above 200km)
- imbalance between mountains and timetrials
- crazy transfers
- too many hard stages (there were some routes with great stages but then they had two stage with like 10 KOMs in it)

Here are my choices:

FIFTH PLACE ciro.abete
He had a lot of good mountain stages with chances for early attackers. The one thing I disliked where the lack of the length of the time trial kms to balance out those mountain stages.

FOURTH PLACE pierluca.ferretto
I like the creativity and the diversity of the medium mountain stages. The balance between climbing and time trials. But there is one big downside with the downhill on gravel road.

THIRD PLACE xiky
He has some diversity in his medium mountain stages, The balance between climbing and timetrialing is good, too. I like the Mont Faro stage. But i think the Nice stage could be better.

SECOND PLACE alexandre.philippon
He really give the puncheurs a chance tow win this stage race. both mountain stages are only one climb stages which gives the time trialists and the puncheurs to hang in with the climbers in the general classification. He would have one my vote if he had two different types of mountain stages.

FIRST PLACE taaramae_crack
I really like the two high mountain stages. Both stages are different. One stage is for a long range attack and the is other one is designed for battle on the last two climbs. He has some diversity in his medium mountain stage and has a good use of the white roads in Tuscany.

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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by jibvalverde » 22/03/2018, 23:15

Fifth place - 1 point : Ded-Moroz
A well balanced race overall (as much for sprinters, punchers and climbers) but identical patterns over the two weeks: 2 sprints, 3 mountain, 1 chrono; 2 sprints, 4 mountain, 1 chrono. Pity.

Fourth place - 2 points : antoninvds
Ventoux, Terminillo, time trial at Eze, final time in Benedetto and punchy stage at La Spezia. Classic and effective.

Third place - 3 points : CaramelMou
Only one true finish at the top, steps conducive to the movement, a long time-trial to force the climbers to move: a well-defined course. Bonus for Mont Faron.

Second place - 4 points: tomnrem
Novelty (Vachères, Carpegna), little high mountain but many unpredictable scenario's stages, two weeks with different patterns without being incompatible. Good work even if i've a doubt on your arrival in Nyons. Not sure it's possible (but i'm not the best to talk^^).

First place - 6 points: Pr8
A little too high mountain for the month of March perhaps but the race is nonetheless balanced. I love your first stage, unexpected and successful. The suite is perfectly built, without major error and substantially accessible to everyone, each in turn. The last weekend is good and can change everything in general. Ideal.

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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by Pr8 » 24/03/2018, 17:57

FIFTH PLACE: antoninvds maps/tours/view/8641
You did all quite well, but I found it is wrong to put the very hard climb of Mount Serein in the first part of the race. I also didn't appreciate too much the Nice's stage.

FOURTH PLACE: mels2309 maps/tours/view/8480
Nice route. It's a pity it is unbalanced, too favourable to climbers (I found Sestola stage exaggerated). However the first half of the race is cleverly tracked, and I love Castelfidardo's stage.

THIRD PLACE: mike4296 maps/tours/view/8433
I found very interesting several of your stages, and i think the route is well balanced. However I think there are too much "Liegi style" stages, and in some of them I would have preferred to see less climbs.

SECOND PLACE: Taaramae_crack maps/tours/view/8608
Globally a very well drawed race... but the stage of Castelluccio is definitely too hard (I love that finish, but is good for a Giro d'Italia).

FIRST PLACE: Pincoletto maps/tours/view/8612
Quite well balanced tour, with a lot of interesting stages (Lyon, Montepulciano, ...). Maybe the French mountain finish is too hard to be placed at the fourth day of the race.

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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 24/03/2018, 18:19

Reviews - Part 3
Belgian4444
Like the idea of prologue but didn't respect the idea of the route. You had to start in one of the center NEAR paris, not IN paris. The arrive on Cote de Lorien is terrible. Lentignano is a terrible finish as probably doesn't reach 100 inhabitants. Castelluccio, instead, it has 150. Stage of Ascoli has imho a too hard MTF for this route in an Juniores stages. There is no a flat itt in the whole route. 3 points presentation, 60 points penalty.

Mauro
No errors in French part. Don't like the two MTF Bayard/Eze. Castelluccio di norcia is definitely a no for the finish. Too small, despite being practicable. The route seems at least good. 0 points presentation, 0 points penalty.

Ded-Moroz
First thing I noticed it's that stages are way too short. Only one over 204 for a race in preparation to classics. Finish on Col de Perty is bad as choice and at limit of practicability. There are no errors on the route but Sassotetto is a bit easy from that side. 3 points presentation, 0 points penalty.

AZ1234T
This finish in Montagne de Beune is clearly not practicable. http://prntscr.com/ivt6jh. The 4400 denivel meters stage in March is a bit too much for the race. Noyer was enought I think. I like the Nice stage with Turini. Fantiscriti is clearly too small. Like the final on blockhaus. 0 points presentation, 5 points penalty.

Rmax85
No stage under 200 kms and this is bad. Like the concept for stage 1. Good finish in Saint-Etienne. Ramatuelle finish is at limit. Good Eze stage. Sestola probably too Hard. Stage of Fermo is good but probably with final ITT can be a problem for attacking. 3 points presentation, 0 points penalty.
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Re: Winter Stage Races - Voting

Post by emmea90 » 24/03/2018, 19:05

All the people who get the 3 points for presentation
Pierluca.ferretto
Alfa
Belgian4444
Rmax85
railxmig
Dennis1107
jibvalverde
Paganini
Pesallu
antoinvds
mike4296
pr8
lorenzo.ciconte
xflyinghighx
CaramelMou
Taaramae_crack

Penalties will be assigned if and only if me or rest of the staff will end reviews of all the routes in time. Otherwise won't be assigned for nobody.
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