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Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

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emmea90
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Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by emmea90 »

Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING


In this topic you can vote for the Giro d'Italia, according to the following rules.

PLEASE READ ALL THE POST BEFORE VOTING

How to vote

1 - You have to judge the track according to the requirements: contests/contest-tour-france-2020-t7361.html

2 - You have to write in a post your best FIVE routes, from worse to best, providing a brief motivation for each choice
FIFTH PLACE
(Motivation)

FOURTH PLACE
(Motivation)

THIRD PLACE
(Motivation)

SECOND PLACE
(Motivation)

FIRST PLACE
(Motivation)
How does it work?
- First choice got 6 points, second 4, third 3, fourth 2 and fifth 1 point.
- Presentation bonus grant you 3 points (we will add later with penalties who took the bonus)
- Ranking will be made according to points obtained
- In case of equality I will decide the winner
- YOU CAN'T VOTE FOR YOURSELF
- You can also comment other people's reviews regarding your or other one's routes
- YOU CAN'T CHANGE YOUR VOTE ONCE SUBMITTED

Who can vote?
- Every user that submitted a contest (full points vote)
- Every user in the La Flamme Rouge Staff (Emmea90, Pigna, Sagan99, Matthorse, Nasdon33, Linkinito, Bose12)
- Every user that has registered BEFORE today and has at least 10 tracks in the editor. In this case, his votes counts half of the points scale

Penalties
- Every user that submitted a contest and doesn't submit a valid vote (with 5 choices and motivations) will get a 10 points penalty for all his routes.
- It's FORBBIDDEN to ask for votes. Who will be caught public or privately asking for a vote to some users will get a 50 points penalty in first instance, then the exclusion from all the contests of the year
- Vote penalties for unpracticable routes will be assigned by staff during this phase

Requisites for the +3 bonus
- Providing link of the tour in the post
- Providing viewable image of each stage with a description in the post

Deadline for vote phase is october 11, h 23.59

Routes
Emilio.Torre: maps/tours/view/15326
Mauro: maps/tours/view/15373 +3 presentation
Yellowjersey: maps/tours/view/15836 +3 presentation
Benoit.guillot: maps/tours/view/15818 +3 presentation
jekp: maps/tours/view/15860 +3 presentation
ellvey: maps/tours/view/15829 +3 presentation
jajoejoe: maps/tours/view/15834 +3 presentation
player: maps/tours/view/15983 +3 presentation
kanon16: maps/tours/view/15981 +3 presentation
luigi.russo: maps/tours/view/15986 +3 presentation
jibvalverde: maps/tours/view/15972 +3 presentation
antoinvds: maps/tours/view/16027 (images non working)
davandluz: maps/tours/view/15951 +3 presentation
AjachiChakrabarti: maps/tours/view/15873 +3 presentation
Bocmanis82: maps/tours/view/16101 +3 presentation
rober_vlc: maps/tours/view/16260 +3 presentation
Zaufkauf: maps/tours/view/16141 +3 presentation
taaramae_crack: maps/tours/view/16269 +3 presentation
JoostvandeBeek: maps/tours/view/16178 +3 presentation
Tourdefrancego: maps/tours/view/15649 +3 presentation
CarewsiriusProducciones: maps/tours/view/16280
Anderson: maps/tours/view/15856 +3 presentation
La Resistencia: maps/tours/view/16074 +3 presentation
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emilio.torre
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Re: Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by emilio.torre »

This is my Tour de France routing contest top 5 vote

5th position - Yellowjersey - maps/tours/view/15836 - Very hard and tougher Tour de France's ride, unique mistake he makes, it repeating, crossing with other stages of this Tour.

4th position - kanon16 - maps/tours/view/15981 - Good work but with some little imperfection, unique mistake he makes, he takes a time trial before an Alsacian's High Mountain stage, the other stages are acceptable but not influencing me some my Tour de France route vision for.

3rd position - Benoit.guillot - maps/tours/view/15818 - A spectacular ride and a good choosing of arrive and start locations, he follows my idea to commemorate Marco Pantani's 50th birth with the arrival of Guzet-Neige where Marco won on 1997.

2nd position - ellvey - maps/tours/view/15829 - Very hard ride he designed, he included parts of actual Tour de France and part of stages of last editions, another choose which I appreciate some it is to remember Laurent Fignon on his death 10th years commemorating with the arrive on Villard-de-Lans Cotes 2000 Les Glovettes where it won on 1989 Tour de France

1st position - antoinvds - maps/tours/view/16027 - One of the best creation may I never seen on these tracking contest, I judge his location choosing very good, and his track and route construction is nearlier to present and past Tour de France editions ride construction rules.
Last edited by emilio.torre on 26/09/2020, 12:24, edited 1 time in total.
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benoît.guillot
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Re: Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by benoît.guillot »

FIFTH PLACE : La Resistencia
Your tour should have made the first place, because of many good ideas and well-drawned stages. No jokes. But there's too many mistakes here and there, like transfert (too long for most of them) or the last three stages, too boring to amaze.

FOURTH PLACE : Taaramae_crack
You are the only one who used perfectly the atlantic shore in the beginning of your second week. That is a very good point. However, the rest of your stages are well drawned but I don't find the touch of originality that you put in your trace the others time I voted for you...

THIRD PLACE : Jajoejoe
Your tour offers us some very beautiful stages ! It is well designed but I don't like the idea of having the final moutain stage in Grand-Colombier.

SECOND PLACE : Mauro
Your tour made me travel around some of my favourite places in France. Congrats for using some Unesco site. Actually you are very close to the first place.

FIRST PLACE : Kanon16
Everything's right about your trace. Your presentation gives you extra points for me and you perfectly use the town and the roads that naturally were here to join Nice to Paris without too many big transfert. That is one of the best Tour I've seen. I hope that Prudhomme is lokking this forum and that he'll take inspiration from that trace !
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Re: Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by YellowJersey »

5th - mauro

The race is nice, I like the Arenberg isn't too obvious but is still in a good position in the race, Pyrinees are very innovative which I like seeing and in the Alps I love the Alpe d'Huez stage, but some stages I didn't like so much but it's still good enough to be in the list.

4th - taaramae_crack

Really like this route, nice stages in the Pyrinees and I really love the Chalmazel stage, in the Alps the Alpe d'Huez stage blocked me there as you used Sarenne instead, but the Samoens and Pra-Loup stages are really good it's a proper way to finish a race.

3rd - jibvalverde

Ugine stage is really awesome and that's why I rate you so high here, I don't really like the loop finishes that you've made in some stages but overall the structure is quite good and I like it!

2nd - AjachiChakrabarti

Brilliant race. I'm not a fan of finishing the race in the Pyrinees but you've done it in a way that convinces me, I love the Alps opening up the race hard early on, the way you managed to make a race around France and finish it well is really good.

1st - Bocmanis82

Big ups on this route! Goes around France, has great stages around France, has innovative yet brutal stages in the Alps specially in La Mure I really like that one and that little finish in the Massif is something I'd never thought of.
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Re: Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by CarewsiriusProducciones »

First of all, sorry if you couldn't watch my Tour, but this problem is solved clap

5th Position

TourDeFranceGO
The ending is explosive. May be a Tour like yours will be boring until the final mountain, but then will be very interesting and all riders have a lot of kilometers on legs in the beginning of the most important mountain stages. For you this position.

4th Position
JoostvandeBeek
New endings in Font d'Urle and Mont Colombis. You did a good investigation and you'll be here for that

3th Position
Player.

With your track, if any cyclist lose time on the first week, must attack on the rest of Tour, something good except if he lose a lot of time, reason because is not first or second. A lot of mountain stages in the beginning is a nice idea.

2nd Position
Kanon 16
Besançon ITT before than the last stage in a great idea in a real tour. Rouleur have a chance to win Tour of France or defend yellow jersey if make a good ITT.

1st Position
Rober_vlc

This Tour have a lot of singular stages. First, the stage of cime de la Bonette, only this climb starting at sea level and ending close 3000 m. I like Time Trial in cobbles, nobody tought about that before? I like Pyrenees stages. You are acrossing all the mountain range from east to west. It is a good idea and i love it, especially Pla Castanyer and Bastan de Gers ending. Congratulations
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Re: Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by davandluz »

5th player A very hard first week, a kind of weak last week. Not really my cup of tea, but it's not a bad route. Last note, I think you made a mistake in placing the departures of the Nice stages.

4th jajoejoe It's a balanced entry with some good stages (I really appreciate the Col du Béal one). The Chabeuil stage is underwhelming for a Sunday. Also, the almost complete lack of epic, historic climbs is another downside.

3rd La Resistencia I had half a mind to put a decisive cobblestone stage as the last one, but I figured it'd ruin last week mountain stages. Looking at your route, it was actually doable, I wish I had worked on it a bit more. Instead of the Annecy time trial, I would've put a breakaway stage instead of the very long transfer that connects the Jura (I like this stage, it forces early attacks) to the Vosges, and the ITT on the second week. Just two mountain stages in the last week aren't conventional, but you designed them well enough, considering that you did not put Alps or Pyrenees. Not fond of the Ventoux in stage 4, and the Col de Cenise gravel section does not seem practicable at all.

2nd Anderson Quality entry. Huge gap between my top two votes and the rest in my personal preferences. Your Tour is balanced throughout, with many good ideas. Last three days could tire any rider, and very good Pyrenean weekend. I also like the "tranfer" stages, as the Marseille-Sète. Deserved second spot.

1st kanon16 There are many good things about your Tour, but I would like to highlight a "smaller" detail, which underline the quality of your route. Whereas most, when going Westbound along the south coast after the Nice weekend, choose to climb the very easy Col du Testanier, which does not make a difference really, you decided to use the beautiful Corniche d'Or road, which helps early tv broadcasting of the stage with the magnificent scenaries. About the rest, really good job: right number of ITT kms, good balancing, best entry by a landslide.
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Re: Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by antoninvds »

Hi everyone !

There is my vote for this contest. It was really hard to chose the five best, even if two of you are in my opinion way over the rest.

5th : LaResistancia
This place is yours because you have broken every single code of what has to be a Tour de France. Putting cobbles the day before Paris is purely crazy and also a nightmare, and your mountain stages are all queens. I have been surprised by what you submitted.

4th : Jekp
You have really good ideas but I think your Tour is not balanced. Mountains are missing on week ends but I like climbing Mont Ventoux by West side and the Plateau des Says finish.

3rd : Jajoejoe
Well-balanced design and also good ideas : your first week is punchy and your Alps crossing is very good. Parquetout is always a good idea. Maybe you have put too much MTF.

2nd : Taaramae_crack
You are accustomed of submitting good routes, and what cost you my first place is your Alps crossing which is really really long in my opinion. Otherwise your Tour is one of the best I've seen on this forum since I registered, 6 years ago : Massif Central is really well explored (God bless your 14th stage), I love Samoëns 1600, and Cayolle too.

1st : Ellvey
Still looking for something wrong. Explosive first week, Basque Country, the finish in Lyon and all your third week are something I would like to see more often. Congrats.

Well done everyone !

Antonin :beer:
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Re: Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by rober_vlc »

5th position. Kanon 16

It is a good tour, but maybe there are a lot ITT. This is the reason because in only 5.

4th position. JibValverde

The end in Groupama stadium is original, not the route. 4th position.

3rt position. Ellvey.
Spectacle will be sure. A lot of mountain stages and I like a ITT in 10 stage, but Moint Aigoual exist in the real tour and for this is 3rt

2nd position Benoit.Guillot
Nice final week. Mountain but two stages plane and medium mountain that can have surprises. Good idea the last ITT.

1st position. La Resistencia

Your Tour goes all the mountain massif of France and Roubaix. Good job
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Re: Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by AjachiChakrabarti »

TourDeFranceGO wrote: 30/09/2020, 20:53 In this regard maybe I would change things as there are 3 flat days in a row (which I think breaks the rules)
The rule was a maximum of two sprint stages in a row. Although I've marked Stage 11 as a flat stage, it is a puncheurs' stage, with the Mur de Bretagne and another climb before a downhill run to the finish. (Maybe I should have marked it as medium mountain. I never know how to classify such stages correctly.)
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Re: Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by benoît.guillot »

AjachiChakrabarti wrote: 08/10/2020, 14:34
TourDeFranceGO wrote: 30/09/2020, 20:53 In this regard maybe I would change things as there are 3 flat days in a row (which I think breaks the rules)
The rule was a maximum of two sprint stages in a row. Although I've marked Stage 11 as a flat stage, it is a puncheurs' stage, with the Mur de Bretagne and another climb before a downhill run to the finish. (Maybe I should have marked it as medium mountain. I never know how to classify such stages correctly.)
Amen to that !

I wish we have a "hilly" classification for thoses stages. Between medium moutain and plain...
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Re: Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by jibvalverde »

FIFTH PLACE - Mauro

Not a big fan of the two big mountain bloc and you cobble stage is a dream (Arenberg impossible in TDF, circuit too short) but i like the agencement. A little too much ITT.

FOURTH PLACE - YellowJersey

I really like the third week but i found a little strange only one Pyrenees stage. The rest is quite good.

THIRD PLACE - benoit.guillot

Your mountain stages ar very good. To be a little higher, you just miss a fantasy plaine stage, like Tours with some graved roads.

SECOND PLACE - TourdeFranceGO

Not a big fan of the five mountain stage in seven days, but these are very good stages, i loved them. I would just have add a sprint stage.

FIRST PLACE - Bocmanis82

Great mountain stages, too big ITT but not too much kms, your "La Mure" stage is absolutly perfect... Not sure of the realism of Col du Sabot but it changed nothing to the stage. Very good TDF.
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Re: Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by kanon16 »

5°Place - Anderson
Good job! I like very much your first week, with the stages of Millau, Montauban and the mountain ones on Pyrenées.
Second week ok, I don't like soo much indeed your 3 Alpin stages, too similar to the recent Tour de France mood: short stages and not a great denivel..Also too few TT kilometers.

4°Place - davandluz
Perfect first week, with tricky hilly stages, a mountain top finish to make the values clear and then combo Pyrenées stage and ITT.
The second week is ok, also the alpin stages..but not particularly fancy. I like the ITT and the last decisive stage on Vosges.

3°Place - Bocmanis82
First week maybe too hard too early with 6/9 tricky stages for GC men.. I really like the stages 11 and 12 for puncheurs. Beautiful! 14 and 15 don't excite me particularly but what I really like about your Tour is the third week. Beautiful mountain stages and a good ITT. Difficult for a GT the arrival to the Col de Sabot, but it should not change so much with the finish line at Vaujany after Madeleine and Glandon.

2°Place - jajoejoe
I was very undecided with Bocmanis for the second position.. I choose your Tour for the beautiful first week (stage 3, 7/8/9 over the others) and the sequence 16/17/18, really 3 great stages, mostly the combo Col de Parquetout-Sanctuaire de la Salette in the stage 17.

1°Place - La Resistencia
No doubt about the first posision: few to say about your Tour de France. Beautiful preview, first week very interesting (Cebère and the last Pyrenaic my favorites), then you drew the stage with the Lure and the Ventoux very similar to mine (but backwards!)
Second week with two spectacular mountain stages (though I think that the Col de Cenise was impossible for the Tour unless major work on the road..) but the Colombiere is near there.
Third week impressive: a maxi ITT before two demanding not common stages and than the "rabbit from the top hat": the Roubaix at stage 20!.. great and also prescient, since they have now cancelled the real Paris-Roubaix... Chapeau!
Last edited by kanon16 on 11/10/2020, 15:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by taaramae_crack »

Fifth place: TourDeFranceGO - I saw some original and interesting stages that I liked, especially in the first week, but some others were a little bit strange for me. The general distribution and order in the stages is also good, but for example the Bourg-Saint-Maurice stage could end being a boring one, as it's just before the Granon stage, even if its design is really cool. The TT order is also a bit weird for me, having a short one in the middle of the race and then a really long one. I didn't took this into account because it's something personal and just strange, and the course of the race could be also good with it.

Fourth place: antoninvds - Loved most of your flat and medium mountain stages (like Super Dévoluy in the fourth stage and what you did with Puy Mary, including some other climbs of the zone in the middle part of the stage). In spite, the mountain stages weren't so good, and I didn't like the fact of having 4 consecutive mountain stages, that's why you aren't on a higher place. Even though, I have to say that I also liked the Grenoble stage with the insertion of Col du Palaquit.

Third place: kanon16 - You have some really good and designed stages, and also an interesting distribution, but I consider the last part in the Vosgues (the 20th stage in particular) a bit soft for making a really determining part (as I think you tried to do); the idea of searching for long range attacks with Ballon d'Alsace is quite good, but the stage hasn't any other really hard parts for pushing, so it couldn't be so effective as it should. Also, another little commentary, I think the finish in Laberou wouldn't be feasible, as the road is very narrow and deteriorated, and with some gravel, and as far as I saw in Google Maps, it might not be enough space for making the the finish. A finish just in Lescun could have been more realistic, and would let some space for seeing attacks in Labays, in the climb, but also in the downhill, that it's really really technical from that side.

Second place: ellvey - For you I have to say two main things: first of all, you possibly had the best route of the contest, and individually some of the best stages/ideas too, for example I liked the stage of Mauléon-Licharre and the finish up the Alpe d'Huez (also the fact you didn't a very selective stage there as being a new finish and something like a "first experiment"). But you aren't in the first place, just because you copied too many stages or finishes from the real TdF route, and I think part of the difficulty of the contest is to make something completely new, or, at least different from what has been made (note: I didn't counted the two Nice stages because many other people also did and, as being the Grand Départ, I see legit maintaining it as the real one).

First place: Anderson - Really nice course in general, possibly the most complete one in all the contest, so that's why you are here. Liked chiefly your stage in Pont d'Espagne and your TT, even if for me it would have been better with a few km more. The only thing it could be maybe improvable is the last part on the Alps, stage in Annecy is a bit soft for me (but it's suitable for some long range attacks) and Grand Colombier finish isn't also my cup of tea (even if Taaramae won there once :D :asd: clap ).
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Re: Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by Bocmanis82 »

It was difficult choice this year. These five might be the best ones this year, IMO:

5th: davandluz - I like that you take first two stages "easy". Finish in Mende in stage 4 is cool too, I have always wondered how it would look early in the race. Finish in Mantet looks interesting but who would pay for it because this town has 30 inhabitants and there are no ski resort? I would also have put ITT before Luchon stage not after. Apart from that I really like Alps, one of the best in this contest. Also loving final mountain stage in Vosges.

4th: taaramae_crack - I like your Stage 2, especially that you have managed to find first category climb less than 40km before finish. Loving nice climb before finish in Millau too. Two days in Pyrenees are a very good test for first week. Massif Central is nicely done. Compliments to Alps too. Midrace ITT is nice but I would have liked to see second ITT somewhere.

The thing I found dubious was the final transfer - I imagine it will be likely done via Gap (Pra Loup - Gap is 75km, 1h20m by car). However, Gap does not have an airport or TGV station (it only has TER) which means that they might need about 4-5 hours just to get to TGV station or Aiport (likely in Grenoble). Therefore, transfer might take 6-7 hours in total. Seems long.

3rd: ellvey - I like your improved Pyrenees. Two ITTs are nice, in this setup I like final ITT in PDBF (in original TDF I hated it as the only ITT of the tour). Alps are brutal. Rumilly stage looks overdone (maybe you could have skipped one of first two climbs).

2nd: Anderson - Nice and balanced route. Like stage 2 in Nice as well as stages leading to Pyrenees in first week. I would have liked to see steeper MTF in Pyrenees. Midrace ITT and Massif Central is good. Final week looks epic and brutal, real endurance test.

1st: jibvalverde - Nice build-up in first week (Vaison-la-Romaine and Carcassonne stages are interesting) as well as two stages in Pyrenees. I like stages in Jura too. Both ITTs are nicely placed, finale is great too. Stages towns look realistic.

Some routes I liked and I almost voted for them:

kanon16: liked Vienne, Mont Dore, Cahors stages, Alps as well as both ITTs. Your explanation of stages were excellent. Just wanted to ask - who would pay for Montagne de Laberou and Seynes - Guidon de Bouquet finishes? Both towns have less than 200 inhabitants. Are there a kind of story?

La Resistencia: loved early "soft" finish at Ventoux, Pailhieres and Plateau de Beille combo, Massif Central, Plan Bois, Grand Ballon stages.
I wanted to ask whether sides you use for Eze and Quatres Chemins climbs are doable in a road stage? I considered both of them but I've had an impression that these roads are very narrow and could be a better fit for ITTs. I also could not find street view of Vesancy climb on Stage 17. Is it paved? It could be impracticable road.
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Re: Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by AjachiChakrabarti »

FIFTH PLACE: jibvalverde
I like how you've kept the spirit of the original route while keeping room for creativity, but I'm not a fan of the main GC stages.

FOURTH PLACE: kanon16
Some fun stages, but the weekends haven't been utilised well.

THIRD PLACE: davandluz
I love most of your stages, especially the second week, but some of the mountain stages would have benefited with the decisive climbs closer to the finish.

SECOND PLACE: Bocmanis82
Love the fact that you included nine regions, with some entertaining stages. It was a marginal choice between you and my favourite.

FIRST PLACE: Anderson
This route really ticks off most boxes for me, other than geographical spread. The fantastic final week tipped the scale in your favour.
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Re: Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by jajoejoe »

5th place: player
You failed to utilize about 80% of France which means this doesn’t really qualify as a Tour de France imo, but the rest is good enough to compensate it.

4th place: Kanon16
Great stages, but a little off. Finishes are in too small towns and the weekends aren’t that great.

3rd place: TourdeFranceGO
Overall some good stages, but not really distributed well.

2nd place: La Resistencia
Although most of your stages aren’t that amazing, you get a 12/10 for originality. Roubaix as last stage is amazing

1st: Bocmanis82
What Player failed to do, you did great. A real Tour de France with some great stages. Congrats!
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Anderson
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Re: Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by Anderson »

5th place: ellvey
Very balanced Tour, I especially like the Mauleon-Licharre and the Villard-de-Lans stages. Too much transfers and too less new ideas unfortunately.

4th place: Bocmanis82
I absolutely love your 3rd week, especially Stage 20. But you put the Pyrenees too early for me, and your transfers are sometimes too long.

3rd place: Joostvandebeek
Nearly every stage has something challenging, so riders have always to be aware. Unfortunately Col du Sapet and Mont Colombis are not suitable for a MTF and the 1st time trial is way too long. But the rest is nearly perfect!

2nd place: taaramae_crack
Actually you would have been a top spot contender, because your routing is similar to mine. Your 2nd week is outstanding, as well as Stage 20. But I have some doubts about the condition of Col des Champs, Cayolle and Spandelles. It's only a minor thing but this was too dangerous for me.

1st place: Kanon16
The winner! Your time trials are outstanding, as well as your stages 5 and 6. You found new places for all 5 MTFs which is incredible! Transfers are often short, Stage 20 in Vosges is very interesting.
--------------------------------------------
3rd place Tour de France Contest 2020
2nd place Tour de France Contest 2021
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Re: Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by JoostvandeBeek »

My votes for this contest:

5th place: jekp
Love the fact that you used the Malaucene route for the Ventoux. The last week seems a little too hard though.

4th place:jajoejoe
Very original and creative tour, with lots of new finishing towns. The tour has a solid route.

3rd place:antoninvids
Good tour with some nice medium mountain stages.

2nd place:ellvey
Very nice and creative tour, really nothing to comment on, one was just a little better.

1st place: kanon16
Real nice original mountain stages, good balance between mountain and itt, really like your tour.

Overall I thought the quality of the routes was quite high, which made it very difficult for me to choose five best ones. Nice work everyone!
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Re: Contest #7 - Tour de France - VOTING

Post by emmea90 »

Final Contest #7 ranking
kanon16 41
Bocmanis82 30
Anderson 26
taaramae_crack 23
ellvey 18
jajoejoe 17
La Resistencia 15
jibvalverde 15
Benoit.guillot 13
JoostvandeBeek 12
Tourdefrancego 12
antoinvds 11
AjachiChakrabarti 10
davandluz 9
Yellowjersey 6
CarewsiriusProducciones 0
Emilio.Torre 0
Mauro -1
player -2
rober_vlc -4
jekp -4
luigi.russo -7
Zaufkauf -7
Software Engineer, Cycling Fanatic
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