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Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

Posted: 22/03/2020, 19:59
by emmea90
Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

In this topic you can vote for the Benelux Cobbled Classics, according to the following rules.


How to vote

1 - You have to judge the track according to the requirements.
The 2nd contest of the season will be about Benelux Cobbled Classics. You are called to re-invent the following classics
  • Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
  • Kuurne-Bruxelles-Kuurne
  • Ronde Van Drenthe
  • De Panne Classic
  • E3 Harelbeke
  • Gent-Wevelgem
  • Dwaars Door Vlaanderen
  • Ronde Van Vlaanderen
Constraints are the following ones:
  • General
    • All classics must start and finish into different cities from the original ones. 2019 cities are the one for reference.
    • You can change names of the classics that contains a city in the name, changing the city
    • You can use cities in 'other' classics, example Ypres cannot be used in Gent-Wevelgem (as it's start) but can be used in Ronde Van Drenthe
    • You are not asked to keep the same zone, but classics should be entirely be in Benelux
    • There should be at least three finishes in Netherlands
    • Classics should present the same or at least similar characteristics of the original ones
  • Omloop Het Nieuwsblad
    • Race is intended to be a lighter version of the Ronde. Should be won by people that usually places in top 20-25 of Ronde, not cutting them out. Should not be for pure sprinters (like Viviani). Distance not more than 210 Km.
  • Kuurne-Bruxelles-Kuurne
    • Race should have a middle section with cobbled bergs for attacks, then a final circuit that put sprinters back in field, giving them 60-70% chances to win the race.
  • Ronde Van Drenthe
    • It's a sprinter race with some cobbled sections sprinters have less chances than in Kuurne and present no bergs.
  • De Panne Classic
    • Pure sprinter race.
  • E3 Harelbeke
    • Race more similar to a Ronde. Harder than Omloop but easier than Ronde.
  • Gent-Wevelgem
    • It's a race in which pure sprinters can have a 50-50% chance with attackers.
  • Dwaars Door Vlaanderen
    • It's a <200 Km race that present some climbs but only few cobbled so climbers like Valverde can make a top 10-15. Sprinters are definitely taken out of the field
  • Ronde Van Vlaanderen
    • Think there is nothing to explain here. It's THE monument. It's forbbidden to re-propose the old Ronde Finish with Muur and Bosberg
Please use the "ASO 2019 profile" of the race, in 3d mode for all the races. For the Ronde Van Drenthe use the Scheldeprijs profile.

You have to deliver two routes, one for the Men's races and one for the Women's races with classics inserted in that order.
2 - You have to write in a post your best FIVE routes, from worse to best, providing a brief motivation for each choice




How does it work?
- First choice got 6 points, second 4, third 3, fourth 2 and fifth 1 point.
- Presentation bonus grant you 3 points (we will add later with penalties who took the bonus)
- Ranking will be made according to points obtained
- In case of equality I will decide the winner
- You can also comment other people's reviews regarding your or other one's routes

Who can vote?
- Every user that submitted a contest (full points vote)
- Every user in the La Flamme Rouge Staff (Emmea90, Pigna, Sagan99, Matthorse, Nasdon33, Linkinito, Bose12)
- Every user that has registered BEFORE today and has at least 10 tracks in the editor. In this case, his votes counts half of the points scale

- Every user that submitted a contest and doesn't submit a valid vote (with 5 choices and motivations) will get a 10 points penalty for all his routes.
- It's FORBBIDDEN to ask for votes. Who will be caught public or privately asking for a vote to some users will get a 50 points penalty in first instance, then the exclusion from all the contests of the year
- Vote penalties for unpracticable routes will be assigned by staff during this phase

Requisites for the +3 bonus
- Providing link of the tour in the post
- Providing viewable image of each stage with a description in the post of at least Men Elite races

Deadline for vote phase is april 6, h 23.59

Diego12Alpe: ME - maps/tours/view/13885 / WE - maps/tours/view/13930
Zaufkauf: ME - maps/tours/view/14040 / WE - maps/tours/view/14039
jibvalverde: ME - maps/tours/view/13962 / WE - maps/tours/view/13963 +3 presentation
Arnorius: ME - maps/tours/view/13900 / WE - maps/tours/view/13901 + 3 presentation
Paoloagb: ME - maps/tours/view/14118 / WE - maps/tours/view/14119
JoostvandeBeek: ME - maps/tours/view/14044 / WE - maps/tours/view/14110
Xander66: ME - maps/tours/view/14121 / WE - maps/tours/view/14122 + 3 presentation
jajoejoe: ME - maps/tours/view/14128 / WE - maps/tours/view/14129 + 3 presentation
taaramae_crack: ME - maps/tours/view/14131 / WE - maps/tours/view/14132
improb: ME - maps/tours/view/14133 / WE - maps/tours/view/14134

Not admitted
Mauro: ME - maps/tours/view/14023 / WE - maps/tours/view/14024

Re: Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

Posted: 22/03/2020, 20:15
by jajoejoe
I didn’t get bonus points for presentation again, but this time the photos of the stages do work. Sorry for saying this again if it isn’t justified like last time.

Re: Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

Posted: 22/03/2020, 21:05
by emmea90
jajoejoe wrote:
22/03/2020, 20:15
I didn’t get bonus points for presentation again, but this time the photos of the stages do work. Sorry for saying this again if it isn’t justified like last time.
You are right this time, i forgot you and xander

Re: Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

Posted: 26/03/2020, 19:49
by Arnorius
Just saw that paoloagb's men and women routes got mixed up, maybe you better correct it :)

Re: Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

Posted: 27/03/2020, 14:35
by Diego12Alpe
FIRST PLACE: jibvalverde
[ME] I think you made very good races, well structured and with sense. The only thing I can say is that maybe more cobbled sectors in Charleroi-Maastricht would be nice.
[WE] Also good and realistic races, great job.

SECOND PLACE: jajoejoe
[ME] The races you made in other place than it's original zone I think are good, but in general I think your races need a little bit to be the best in the contest.
[WE] Same opinion for your women's races than men's races.

THIRD PLACE: taaramae_crack
[ME] I think in your Omloop Het Nieuwsblad the distance betwen the last climb and the finish line should be shorter, and your E3 BinckBank Classic needs more cobbled climbs. Maybe your Brussel - Kuurne - Brussel need more hardness in the middle part.
[WE] Same opinion as in the men's Omploop Het Nieuwsblad and Brussel - Kuurne - Brussel. I also think the E3 BinckBank Classic needs more climbs and also cobbled climbs.

FOURTH PLACE: JoostvandeBeek
[ME] I think in Circuit La Dernière Heure the key part of the race is far from the finish line, your Zeist - Arnhem - Zeist need more cobbled sectors and the Antwerpen - Tienen have to be harder than it is.
[WE] I think the same about women's Circuit La Derniere Heure and Antwerpen - Tienen than men's. In Zeist - Arnhem - Zeist should be cobbled sectors.

[ME] I think Liedekerke-Kortrijk-Liedekerke would be better with more distance betwen the last climb and the finish line, and E3 Binckbank Classic would be better with the last climb at 10 or 15 kilometers of the finish line, not at 30km. To me have just one cobbled sector in Eindhoven - Sittard I think is a bad idea.
[WE] In E3 Binckbank Classic and Eindhoven - Sittard I think the same as in the men's races, but I think your women's races are better done than the men's ones.

Re: Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

Posted: 30/03/2020, 23:40
by jibvalverde
FIRST PLACE : Jajoejoe

Good Omloop but i think Saint-Laurent is too much, too near to the finish
Good and original Waterloo-Geraardsbergen-Waterloo. Love it.
Classic Drenthe but too hard. It’s supposed to be for sprinteur
De Panne without surprise but good
Nice E3 BinckBank Classic even if i think it’s a little too easy
GW is good too but i regret the simple part in the middle
Too many cobbled in Dwaars ! It’s supposed to be a mix between flanders and Liege ^^
Nice Ronde, quite similar to what i’vde done for the final but Varent is not cobbled all along and i found that is a big change in your race because last 2 bergs aren’t cobbled
Not ok with all ideas but well traced.

SECOND PLACE : Diego12Alpe

Good Omloop Nieuwsblad
Good exploitation of Kapelmuur but maybe a little tough for a KBK…
Not a fan of your Drenthe, too many hard cobbled in the second part of the race
Good Terneuzen Classic
Not a fan of arrival in cobbled of Gerardgreen
Eindhoven-Maastricht is way too hard for a GW…
Good Dwaars door Vlaanderen
I really like your Ronde but why make GP E3 so different ?
Very good women’races each time.

THIRD PLACE : Arnorius

Original Omloop with Quaremont-Paterberg and an another cobbled road between them.
I find your Liedekerke-Kortrijk-Liedekerke too hard for a KBK
Your Ronde van Zeeuws-Vlaanderen is magnificent but too many cobbled in second part. It supposed to be a sprinter classic
Nice Maasvlakte Classic. Simple, efficient. Not very sure of your final but it’s ok
Your E3 Binckbank Classic’s final is too easy at my opinion. Last berg at 32km of the finish is too far.
Not fan of Eindhoven – Sittard. A GW without cobbles is not a GW.
I like more your Dwars, even if most of the points of your climbs are bad positionned
Not fan of the arrival of the Ronde in the cobbled hill of Geraardsbergen


I love your Omloop, which is like the old one but with new cobbles. Very interesting.
Very good Brugge>Waterloo. Looks like a KBK, so excellent.
Drenthe is supposed to be for sprinter. Too many hard cobbled in second part.
Perfect Ronde van Holland
Your GP E3 is very good but way too short. At least 20km too short.
A good Lokeren Ingelmunster, harder than GW but balanced.
Your Dwaars Door Limburg is far away from what Dwaars is supposed to be. Not enough bergs.
Ronde is way too hard… Too many climbs, too many cobbled and it’s me who says that ^^

FIFTH PLACE : Taaramae_crack

No cobbled bergs in last 27km, it’s too much for my taste
Love your KBK
I would love your Drenthe… in the other way
Good De Panne with just enough cobbled, not too much
GP E3 is way too easy…
Good GW, similar to the real one
Love your Dwaars, realy well balanced between cobbled bergs and brutal hills
Not a fan of your Ronde. I don’t like the idea of an arrival in the Muur. Last cobbled berg before that is 29km to finish : way too much for me.

For the others, I decide de tell you what i thought even if you're not in top 5.
Zaufkauf :

Omloop way too easy. Not enough bergs… Nearly better in women’s version
Like the originality of Wavre-Wavre but too easy once more, even for a KBK
Drenthe has cobbled in first part, not second
Noord-Holland Classic simple but efficient
Once again, not enough bergs and too far from the arrival. It’s supposed to be GP E3…
Too easy, even for a GW
I really like your Dwaars, even if i regret arrival on cobbles
3 cobbled bergs in 90 last kms, it’s way not enough… Like major of your races.

JoostvandeBeek :

Very good Circuit La Dernière Heure. Original, nice exploitation of Tournai. Maybe a little too easy in last 40 kms for Omloop.
Beautiful Zeist - Arnhem – Zeist. Nothing else to say.
Nice Omloop van de Braakman but Drenthe is supposed to be more for sprinter than that
Nice Katwijk Classic, very La Panne style
Not fan of your E3 Binckbanck Classic but it’s well designed
Nice Antwerpen – Tienen, very like GW
Dwars door Limburg is well thought but Wingaardsberg is not a cobbled road but a forest road, not praticable
Not fan of your Ronde. Berg ten Houte is not cobbled and i would have prefered Kruisberg-Kortkeer-Taaienberg, like you did for women’s race.
Too many mistakes but some good ideas. I like most of your women’races.

Xander66 :

Omloop original but a little too easy for me
Good Brussel - Kuurne – Brussel
Ronde van Brabant too hard. Supposed to be for sprinters. Yours is not.
Classic Driedaagse Utrecht – Delft. But good.
Not fan of E3 Poperinge and its 4 ascents of Kemmelberg
Venlo – Maastricht and À travers la Wallonie too easy once more
Not fan of your Ronde and its cobbled sectors to finish.
Women’s race well traced

Improb :

Sorry but, between races in wrong order and no localisations of climbs and cobbles, difficult to estimate your races.

Re: Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

Posted: 02/04/2020, 20:42
by pabloagb
5th place: taaramae_crack
Some of the best races in the contest are yours, like the KBK you did, but a finish on Kapelmuur in the Ronde is a no-no for me.
4th place: xander66
I think your effort must be rewarded. You had very original ideas. Some were better executed than others. I am a big fan of your E3.
3rd place: Diego12Alpe
Overall, you have met all the requirements well and your races are very nicely designed. However, I am not convinced by your E3.
2nd place: jibvalverde
Your proposal is very strong, and your races are original and well-designed. There is little difference between you and 1st place. For me it was close.
1st place: JoostvandeBeek
Your submission is very nice. Overall, it is very original and nicely designed. What makes you the best, in my opinion, is that you made the best Ronde.

I have to admit that I didn't have a good time doing or evaluating these races. I found this contest to be very hard. The Valverde requirement was impossible for me to do, and, to my mind, nobody really met it, so I didn't even consider it when evaluating. The other problem with the contest is that, in real life, most of these races use the same roads and are mini versions of De Ronde. For that reason, I find the challenge very repetitive. You just have to do lesser versions of the same race.

Re: Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

Posted: 03/04/2020, 0:14
by taaramae_crack
First of all I would like to clarify that my Ronde van Vlaanderen doesn't finish in the Kappelmuur as some of you said or, at least, in the top of it (as I think some of you could have understood -maybe not, then I have nothing to say :D -), but in the middle part of it, as usually does BinckBank Tour in its last stage, so it's not meant to be decissive (because the hard part is not climbed), but just include a nicer and more scenic sprint than the real one, trying to give choices to some riders than in a straight-flat sprint woudn't have any ;)

After commenting this, here are my votes:

Fifth place: Xander66
I appreciate the fact that you tried to innovate in almost every race, and that's whay I give you the fifth place. But I think in some of them the terrain wasn't appropiate for the race you tried to create, so next time try to study better the choices and the things you have or you haven't in the map, because I think that could be the main problem. By the way, you are in the good path, and I liked some of your races, such as Omloop and KBK (although I think it has a bit too much cobbles).

Fourth place: Arnorius
I liked some of your creations, for example Omloop or Ronde van Vlaanderen (which is the most important one :D ), but some others had things I didn't like, and that is why you didn't achieved a better place. For example, in KBK, I don't like the last climb you included, it's too near from the finish and the main characteristic of the race is having the las kms completely race for seeing different thongs than in other races. In E3 I consider you included too much cobbles, when this race doesn't actually include so many (and most of them aren't bergs, but flat or even descents)

Third place: jibvalverde
Almost all of the races are fine and haven't big mistakes or things I dislike. But you have one detail (or maybe more than a detail) that has indeed surprised me: Omloop, E3 and RVV have almost the same final kilometers !!! The combination Steenbeekdries (or its variants) + Eikenberg + Flat finish is the same of all of them, and that turn this three races into almost the same.

Second place: Diego12Alpe
Very correct and nice tracks in general, without any big mistake, I would only like to remark a few details: in KBK kappelmuur is too hard for being so near from the finish for a race like that one, this is a completely personal opinion, but I would have chosen something softer; E3 and Gent-Wevelgem have too much cobbles, when in real the real races, specially GW, hasn't almost any cobble; and the last thing, in the flat classic you go through a really big tunnel (near Terneuzen), I don't know if you did this on purpose or not, but it might not be the best idea for TVs and local spectators. The rest is very well done, congratulations.

First place: jajoejoe
The six points go to you, for me you did a very interesting combination of originality and good races, although I find some of the a bit soft, I find your work really cool and I have nothing else to object. Very good job mate !!

And sorry for calling the races for their real names and not by the one you chosen, it's a detail I appreciate seeing original names, but for rating them I prefer to call them by their real name, just for knowing what I'm dealing with, and not making my brain a huge mess :stupore:

Re: Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

Posted: 03/04/2020, 23:50
by JoostvandeBeek
Overall I thought there were some nice routes in this contest. For my rating of the routes I chose to not really consider the Ronde van Drenthe and the Driedaagse de Panne, as the routes were too similar.
Fifth place: Diego12Alpe
I like your Omloop, KBK and RVV revamps. For your E3, I don't really like the finish of the Binckbanck Tour in the classic. I thought your GW was a little bit too hard to still be considered a sprinters classic, and your DDV focused too much on cobbles and too little on the hills.

Fourth place: Xander66
I think your routes were quite original. I really like your E3 version with the Kemmelberg in the final. Your GW and DDV are maybe a little bit too easy but the ideas are nice. I'm not really sure about the cobbled sectors so deep in the final of the RVV but overall I like the route.

Third place: taaramae_crack
Overall I think you delivered some really good routes, altough your KBK may be a little bit too easy. I really liked your version of GW. The only one I didn't really like was your RVV as I think a finish on the Vesten is not really ideal, and on top of that I think the hills in the final stretch are not decisive enough.

Second place: jibvalverde
Your routes were all very solid. Your GW and DDV are a bit too hard for my liking, but the rest of the routes were good.

First place: jajoejoe
Your Omloop was really nice, and I also liked your E3 and GW. In your KBK, the hills are maybe a little too close to the finish. I thought you designed a really nice RVV, altough the Varent only has 200m of cobbles after the climb

BTW Berg ten Houte is cobbled, only for the first couple hundred metres.

Re: Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

Posted: 04/04/2020, 0:04
by Xander66
emmea90 wrote:
22/03/2020, 21:05
jajoejoe wrote:
22/03/2020, 20:15
I didn’t get bonus points for presentation again, but this time the photos of the stages do work. Sorry for saying this again if it isn’t justified like last time.
You are right this time, i forgot you and xander
Well, first things first, I think you might have put my bonus points behind the wrong person this time

I didn’t have too much time to take a proper look at every route (chaotic times for everyone I guess), so I basically based my votes on first impressions. I’m sorry if I missed anything or if I do make wrong assumptions, but this is what I saw on my first look at all the routes. Anyway, here’s my top 5:

5th: jibvalverde
In general I sometimes thought your routes were a bit too much at some points. Too much (hard) climbs or sections following eachother which changed the characteristics of that race.

4th: taaramae_crack
You did make some good races, but I also had a couple of questions about some parts. For example I didn’t really like the cobbles you used in your version of the Panne (it’s a bit too much I think). Also you had a race finish on a cobble section, seemed a bit weird? On the other hand I did like your finish in Geraardsbergen on the Vesten.

3rd: JoostvandeBeek
To keep a long story short, I think you showed some great skills in finding a good route, I just think the key-parts weren’t always in the right position. According to me they wouldn’t decide a race because they’re sometimes too early on the parcours.

2nd: Arnorius
So, I’ll be honest and say I didn’t really enjoy your races that much. I know this can sound a bit harsh but I didn’t have too much of a good feeling about. But besides that I couldn’t ignore the fact that you made some decent tracks, even though I would have made multiple completely different choices at some points.

1st: jajoejoe
I give you my first spot because you didn’t have a race I really did not like, which is already a good start. Also I still had some small questions at some points, but they were really good races and I would enjoy seeing them happen. Well done.

Re: Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

Posted: 04/04/2020, 2:31
by jibvalverde
Xander66 wrote:
04/04/2020, 0:04

5th: jibvalverde
In general I sometimes thought your routes were a bit too much at some points. Too much (hard) climbs or sections following eachother which changed the characteristics of that race.
Not my intention to contest your vote but tell me that i changed the characteristics of that race, no. I used differents climbs ou cobbles, yes, but i've basically same number of climbs or cobbles than original ones, every time. That say, thanks for taking time vor voting

Re: Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

Posted: 04/04/2020, 11:58
by emmea90
Xander66 wrote:
04/04/2020, 0:04
emmea90 wrote:
22/03/2020, 21:05
jajoejoe wrote:
22/03/2020, 20:15
I didn’t get bonus points for presentation again, but this time the photos of the stages do work. Sorry for saying this again if it isn’t justified like last time.
You are right this time, i forgot you and xander
Well, first things first, I think you might have put my bonus points behind the wrong person this time
Sorry, getting old and with too much work in this period.

Re: Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

Posted: 04/04/2020, 12:19
by taaramae_crack
Xander66 wrote:
04/04/2020, 0:04
4th: taaramae_crack
You did make some good races, but I also had a couple of questions about some parts. For example I didn’t really like the cobbles you used in your version of the Panne (it’s a bit too much I think). Also you had a race finish on a cobble section, seemed a bit weird? On the other hand I did like your finish in Geraardsbergen on the Vesten.
Well, as you asked, I will answer to your questions.
Well, I don't know if the first one was really a question or not, but I answer you anyway. As some editions of De Panne had cobble sections (either when it was a three-days race or a classic), I decided to include some cobbled sectors, I tried to have them not too close to the finish, because it's intended to have a bunch/little group sprint (depending on the wind :lol: ), but I understand you can have a different point of view.
And about the finish on the cobbles, I chose it because it's the same street where Volta Limburg Classic usually finishes (being its course completely different to this one), so I knew it was something feasible and realistic, and as the race had so much cobbles as I wanted, I decided to include that finale too.

Re: Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

Posted: 05/04/2020, 11:18
by Arnorius
So many people have voted before me, and still some routes were only opened 3 or 4 times when i checked them...

But aside from that, i've seen some great tracks, sadly also some bad ones but that's my own opinion just as I not always agree with your ideas :p

The biggest mistakes I found were in the women's races. I can understand thatsome people don't know them that much but distances of the races are not that hard to decide. I found a KBK with longer distance then RVV for example :p. Also, Koppenberg is never included in women's races because even the men have problems on it, so just imagine wonem going over it... (or twice in one race...). And even men races never do it except from RVV, so including the climb in 3 or 4 races is too much for me.

As always I also found some railroad crossings in the last few kilometres... :s

Also a question I have because I'm not sure about it so nobody lost points on it. Is that last cobbled sector of Mont Saint Aubert doable on a bike? because I always thought it was some kind of stairs.

For the points then:

5th: Joostvandebeek
Nice to see that someone made four races in the Netherlands
The best Gent-Wevelgem
But that kuurne was quite dramatic to my opinion

4th: Jibvalverde
Very good RVV, but you lost it onthe women's races

3rd: jajajoe
First three were very close, you had very good races but also very bad ones

2nd: Xander66
You get second because I like the fast that you changed the zones

1st: Diego12Alpe
Just more consistent then the two above

Re: Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

Posted: 05/04/2020, 22:49
by jajoejoe
In considering the votes my main priority was the women's races, as it shows who really pays attention to the quality of their product. Anyone who created races of around 120km or less standard is out in my opinion as it doesn't show me that you paid attention to making a realistic and interested race.

First Place: Jibvalverde
Except for the confusing spelling of town names, not a problem as you are allowed to name them in your language of choice, I don't have much negative things to say.

Second place: Taaramae_crack
I really like the finish in "De Vesten" in Geraardsbergen, it has proven to be an ixciting finish in races like the Binckbank Tour. Women's races are solid as well

Third place: Diego12alpe
Please don't use the Muur van Geraardsbergen in KBK, it is too hard and too small and will create too big gaps in the race. Your Gent-Wevelgem has too many cobbles/climbs too close to the finish. A small last point is that your Ronde van Drenthe starts and finishes outside of Drenthe.

Fourth place: Xander66
Really liked that you relocated every race, but you over did it in my opinion

Fifth place: Pabloagb
I like the Heineken spin on one of the races, an original idea although I thin Heineken tastes like expensive piss. Although you're men races aren't that strong, your women's races saved you

Re: Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

Posted: 06/04/2020, 13:52
by Zaufkauf
It took me way longer than I thought. Found it really difficult to choose between the top 3. I was glad to see so many people using the maasberg (Dutch Limburg) in races as it goes almost through my backyard.

Fifth: Xander66.
I really liked the originality in the locations for the routes as well as the route for RVV with using all climbs only once, although having the last climb almost 30 km from the finish is maybe too far. The WE races of E3 and Gent-Welvegem were too easy for my liking.

Fourth: jibvalverde
I liked the balance of toughness of all the races. Too often the last climb was the Eikenberg in my opinion. The WE seemed just the shortened ME races, could have used a bit more attention to detail.

Third: taaramae_crack
I thought your Gent Wevelgem was really good balanced, the best imo. Also was fan of the DDV new route. For some reason The finish on the Vesten in the RVV is not to my liking. Maybe KBK a bit too easy for the sprinters to survive.

Second: JoostvandeBeek
The most original relocations for races which mostly surprised me positively. Also a big plus for adding the E3 col in the E3, which was my favourite E3 route. The KBK WE race didn't have any cobbles and the ME only one cobbled berg, which is too few.

First: jajoejoe
I didn't dislike any of your races, and overal was balanced very well. I liked that you used different climbs to make the difference in finals. Balancing of the WE races was also very good.

Re: Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

Posted: 07/04/2020, 0:45
by improb
First Place PaoloAGB: Perfect, just perfect all around. Two very little flaws is that I don't like how long the Ronde van Holland is (as well as its finish in Amsterdam) and your KBK version being a bit too flat (but I guess it's supposed to end in a sprint anyway

Second Place JoostVanDeBeek: I'm not fond of your Ronde, just forces attackers to go from Kruisberg which makes it 22 kms of action rather than 50 as usual. There could be something more interesting rather than those 18 kms of false flats before then. The rest has a great deal of originality (cobble sectors in Zeeland), the climbs in Central Netherlands, ecc. and the Walloon cobbles.

Third Place Jajajoe: I really like most of your races but your Gent Wevelgem version misses an epic Kemmelberg like climb. The rest falls slightly short. It could be a coin toss between you and Joost but I preferred him as he was more original.

Fourth Place TaaramaeCrack: E3 is a bit too easy and most of all, Ronde shouldn't finish uphill, it's not an Ardennes race. I love that you used a good mix of climbs, cobbles and sterrato around Tournai as well as the hardest cobbles sectors around Valthe in Drenth.

Fifth Place Diego12Alpe: Very good. You designed the best Ronde but I feel sometimes you weren't that original and it's a big thing for me.

Re: Contest #2 - Benelux Cobbled Classics - VOTING

Posted: 07/04/2020, 9:45
by emmea90
Final ranking
jajoejoe 43
jibvalverde 31
Diego12Alpe 22
Joostvandebeek 20
taaramae_crack 19
Xander66 15
Arnorius 13
Paoloagb 9
Zaufkauf 0
improb 0