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Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 08/04/2021, 15:43
by emmea90
In this topic you can vote for the European Pre-Season Races, according to the following rules.

PLEASE READ ALL THE POST BEFORE VOTING

How to vote

1 - You have to judge the track according to the requirements: contests/contest-milan-rome-and-bissagn ... t7390.html

2 - You have to write in a post your best FIVE routes, from worse to best, providing a brief motivation for each choice
FIFTH PLACE
(Motivation)

FOURTH PLACE
(Motivation)

THIRD PLACE
(Motivation)

SECOND PLACE
(Motivation)

FIRST PLACE
(Motivation)
How does it work?
- First choice got 6 points, second 4, third 3, fourth 2 and fifth 1 point.
- Presentation bonus grant you 3 points (we will add later with penalties who took the bonus)
- Ranking will be made according to points obtained
- In case of equality I will decide the winner
- YOU CAN'T VOTE FOR YOURSELF
- You can also comment other people's reviews regarding your or other one's routes
- YOU CAN'T CHANGE YOUR VOTE ONCE SUBMITTED

Who can vote?
- Every user that submitted a contest (full points vote)
- Every user in the La Flamme Rouge Staff (Emmea90, Pigna, Sagan99, Matthorse, Nasdon33, Linkinito, Bose12)
- Every user that has registered BEFORE today and has at least 10 tracks in the editor. In this case, his votes counts half of the points scale

Penalties
- Every user that submitted a contest and doesn't submit a valid vote (with 5 choices and motivations) will get a 10 points penalty for all his routes.
- It's FORBBIDDEN to ask for votes. Who will be caught public or privately asking for a vote to some users will get a 50 points penalty in first instance, then the exclusion from all the contests of the year
- Vote penalties for unpracticable routes will be assigned by staff during this phase

Requisites for the +3 bonus
- Providing link of the tour in the post
- Providing viewable image of each stage with a description in the post

Deadline for vote phase is april 30, h 23.59

Routes:
Benoit.guillot: maps/tours/view/18156 / maps/tours/view/18163 +3 presentation
Mauro: maps/tours/view/18148 / maps/tours/view/18149 +3 presentation
Belgian4444: maps/tours/view/18158 / maps/tours/view/18169 +3 presentation
Jajoejoe: maps/tours/view/18141 / maps/tours/view/18144 +3 presentation
Jibvalverde: maps/tours/view/18234 / maps/tours/view/18233 +3 presentation
Davandluz: maps/tours/view/18266 / maps/tours/view/18164 +3 presentation
Brumdog66: maps/tours/view/18179 / maps/tours/view/18206 +3 presentation
Luna23: maps/tours/view/18207 / maps/tours/view/18208
Micek_52: maps/tours/view/18222 / maps/tours/view/18284 +3 presentation
Sagan99: maps/tours/view/18235 / maps/tours/view/18285 +3 presentation
L EncreEspion: maps/tours/view/18231 / maps/tours/view/18191 +3 presentation
Betto: maps/tours/view/18277 / maps/tours/view/18286
IamCeeKae: maps/tours/view/18170 / maps/tours/view/18188 +3 presentation
Cycling Lennart: maps/tours/view/18306 / maps/tours/view/18307 +3 presentation
Pesallu: maps/tours/view/18282 / maps/tours/view/18292 +3 presentation
CelentanoTour: maps/tours/view/18146 / maps/tours/view/18145 +3 presentation
Diego12Alpe: maps/tours/view/18211 / maps/tours/view/18152 +3 presentation
Zaufkauf: maps/tours/view/18218 / maps/tours/view/18325 +3 presentation
JoostvandeBeek: maps/tours/view/18264 / maps/tours/view/18263
Nebe: maps/tours/view/18199 / maps/tours/view/18217 +3 presentation

Re: Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 09/04/2021, 10:35
by Diego12Alpe
Sorry, I completely forgot to add the links of the races

Link of Milan-Rome: maps/tours/view/18211
Link of Bissagne-Languedoc: maps/tours/view/18152

Re: Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 12/04/2021, 10:52
by Belgian4444
@emmea90

I think you forgot to add the link to this thread in the header.

Re: Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 12/04/2021, 11:57
by Luna23
At least I have time to think about the votes, because I'm getting my schedule changed next few weeks

Re: Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 13/04/2021, 10:01
by JoostvandeBeek
I see that I got a 3 point bonus for the presentation,while I did not present my races in the thread. As much as I would want that 3 extra bonus points, I also want this contest to be fair, so my 3 bonus points should be removed

Re: Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 14/04/2021, 11:11
by Belgian4444
So first off, 2 issues I noticed regarding the routes and the given rules (so I had to eliminate some good routes that were overall otherwise fine): for Milano-Roma, stage 7 was a Mountain Top Finish, not just a mountain stage with a hill top finish & Stage 8 a (medium) mountain stage, not just a stage with a small hill in the end.

Anyway, ranking below. As usual, I mainly point out the issues as criticizing is easier than applauding, so if I say nothing, just assume I think the route was good :p

FIFTH PLACE: Zaufkauf

Could have exchanged a hilly stage for one more sprint stage in Milano-Roma, but no issues otherwise.

FOURTH PLACE: Jajoejoe

Same as above a bit, but I liked your overall route a bit more.

THIRD PLACE: Benoit.guillot

Final ITT is a bit too long for a Tirreno clone imo, but the other stages are great.

SECOND PLACE: IamCeeKae

To be honest, I just wrote "nice" initially. Don't see any issues, good job.

FIRST PLACE: Jibvalverde

Same as above, but you take the win by the final stage in Milano-Roma. Just an excellent stage for a place that's harder to map out than Nice.

Re: Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 14/04/2021, 12:08
by BETTO
FIFTH PLACE: JoostvandeBeek
I like very much Milan-Rome but the Bissagne-Languedoc it's just ok to me because of the two Time Trial

FOURTH PLACE: Belgian444
Two good tours, I prefer Bissagne-Languedoc but I think it could miss the second sprint; Milan-Rome is perfect for the request but the last stage seems too weak

THIRD PLACE: Davandluz
Milan-Rome satisfies the request, just I don't love the Time Trial; Bissagne-Languedoc satisfies the request and it isn't common

SECOND PLACE: Micek52
Milan-Rome is very close to my idea to how should be this tour, so i like it a lot. Bissagne-Languedoc is almost perfect to the request

FIRST PLACE: Celentano Tour
To me, the best Milan-Rome and the best Bissagne-Languedoc

Re: Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 19/04/2021, 13:36
by benoît.guillot
First of all, I'm sorry but I wanted a last stage of Milano - Roma going from and to the eternal city (as for Nice in Paris-Nice). Every one who didn't respect that rule lost many points


FIFTH PLACE: Jajoejoe (12.5/20 overall)

Your Milano - Roma is a bit too hilly but the overall is good.

FOURTH PLACE: IamCeeKae (12.5/20 overall)

Not much to say about your roads. They're respecting the rules, they are nice and pretty but something's missing for me, may a bit more of enthousiasm as you choose not to use some of the key part I've desired.

THIRD PLACE: Davandluz (13.5/20 overall)

Your moutain stage of Bissagne - Languedoc is the best I've seen. For the rest, you respect all the criteria but I just like the two others better.

SECOND PLACE: JibValverde (16/20 overall)

Arf, what a shame you choose not to start your last stage from Roma... However, your Bissagne Languedoc is one of the best I've seen !

FIRST PLACE: Mauro (17.5/20 overall)

You drew races very simlar to mine and I liked it both ! Even if you have too much transfert on your Bissagne - Languedocto my taste, you are the best on this contest, congrats

Re: Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 26/04/2021, 16:39
by IamCeeKae
Fifth place: Sagan99
Though both stage races require more climbing than expected, even during flat stages, and the same recipe tends to be repeated in various stages in a row, the routes that are made have very nice profiles and follow the rules of the contest really well. To positively compensate for the amount of climbing done in the races, the mountainous stages seem to be more smooth-sailing as well.

Fourth place: jibvalverde
The Milan-Rome stage race follows the rules of the contest as it should, but the Bissagne-Languedoc race, profile-wise, is the most original, which is positive to note.

Third place: Mauro
Although very present to a point where it becomes overly so, great use is made from circuits, with the first (flat) stage of the Bissagne-Languedoc race being very nice to look at in particular. Credit where credit's due for great execution.

Second place: CelentanoTour
First of all, awesome presentation, definitely worth its three points, if not more. Hence the reason why this race is so high up my list as well. It poises some originality by suggesting an alternate route in case of/due to bad weather conditions for stage 4 of the Bissagne-Languedoc stage, and in addition the stage thereafter, from Foix to Espezel, looks extra tough by its many short climbs and its finish, which is not necessarily at the summit of a hill, but it's not the follow-up of a short descent either. Overall this submission is very praiseworthy in my opinion. The best Bissagne-Languedoc submission of the bunch.

First place: davandluz
Off to a strange start in the first stage of the Milan-Rome race, with how the route is plotted out and all that, but it more than makes up for it with what follows. With some intriguing stages in its middle, the climax of this race lies in the last stage where, even with limited options in making the stage mountainous what with the lack of good climbs near or around Rome, this stage managed to hold three 2nd category climbs and several others in short succession from each other, with a stage length of only 120 kilometers. It's the best Milan-Rome submission of the bunch.

Re: Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 29/04/2021, 20:28
by jibvalverde
First of all, I wanted to say that I had been generally disappointed to see so many routes in contention not respecting the basic instructions, in particular as regards the last stage of Milano-Roma (like the last stage of Paris-Nice) and the Bissagne Walls stage (which should not be a mountain stage). It is rare to see so many lines so few in the instructions and, inevitably, I did not even consider the rest of their work, since it was off topic.

FIFTH PLACE - Zaufkauf

Considering your stage of "walls" in Bissagne-Laguedoc, you would not have been in my top 5 if I had found better. Fortunately for you, that was not the case and your beautiful final stage on Milano-Roma saves you, even if there is too much dish for my taste after the last climb.

FOURTH PLACE - jajoejoe

Ah if only your stage of the walls of Bissagne was not so "mountainous" ... It's a shame because I loved your Milan-Roma, especially your last stage, quite within the framework of what was requested.

THIRD PLACE - JoostvandeBeek

I really like what you produced for the Bissagne-Languedoc race but your last Milano-Roma stage, although technically correct, was a little too fast for my taste. Not really for climbers. And a little too flat to finish.

SECOND PLACE - Diego12Alpe

By far the most beautiful last stage of Milano-Roma and that immediately put you at the top of my classification. You still have to insure in Bissagne-Languedoc, which you manage to do. On your wall step, the Feysneyt pass is very limited to be acceptable for such a step but it is therefore necessary so very well, but it costs you first place. Sorry.

FIRST PLACE - mauro

I love your Milano-Roma, really magnificent between the finish above Livata and a splendid and perfectly constructed final stage. Very beautiful Bissagne-Laguedoc too, with the originality of Mont St-Clair, which you are the only one to have gone to look for (among those I have looked at anyway). Only problem : too big transfers ... But it's enough.

Re: Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 30/04/2021, 14:24
by Zaufkauf
I looked at the complete routes and took the instructions as the basis for my judging. So the hilly stage in B-L, mountain top finishes, time trial lengths and the final stage in M-R were the main focus.

FIFTH PLACE: CelentanoTour
I liked your Bissagne-Languedoc even though I am not the biggest fan of the 2 mountain finishes. Your Milano-Roma was good, but the last stage was a bit underwhelming, after the mountainous start it falls flat a bit for too long in my opinion.

FOURTH PLACE: JoostvandeBeek
Great routes for both races. I am not completely sold on the team time trial in Bissagne-Languedoc. The hilly stage in B-L was one of the best. Also the last stage in Milano-Roma fit the description perfectly.

THIRD PLACE: Diego12Alpe
Loved your Milano - Roma, it had great alternation in stages and a banger of a last stage. Your Bissagne-Languedoc had some real good stages. The reason your third is because of the use of the high mountains in the pyrenees, which are closed so early in the year.

SECOND PLACE: Mauro
Great routes and fitting the description. Going to Sete for the "walls" stage was brilliant, and your last stage in Milano-Roma was amazing. However I liked the first place route just a little better.

FIRST PLACE: Jibvalverde
Superb routes fitting the description. I think your "walls" stage in Bissagne-Languedoc is amazing. And who cannot like a time-trial with the San Lucca climb in it.

Re: Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 30/04/2021, 19:04
by CelentanoTour
Here are my votes for the contest.
In my opinion many participants did not understand the requests of the contest that provided for a substantial reversal of the Tirreno-Adriatico and Paris-Nice races, respecting their characteristics, but reversing the nations.
Having disregarded the criteria I voted on the basis of the actual feasibility of the races, safety, weather, attention to detail...

FIFTH PLACE: Mauro
Oddly enough, you really don’t respect the contest directions. In any case, the Milan-Rome in general is enough, but with a useless and excessive use of the circuits. The final arrival in Tor Vegata is not very nice. Bissagne is not bad, but the distribution of the stages and the transfer is a bit crazy.

FOURTH PLACE: IamCeeKae
Both races have little in common with their originals. In any case, Milan-Rome has a very variable and interesting path, selective the right one. Nice final stage, although I would have preferred a circuits in Rome. I don’t love your French race very much, especially for the distribution of the stages, but what done by the first race deserves my vote.

THIRD PLACE: Diego12Alpe
Respect of the limit criteria, two interesting races but exaggerated: it’s all too much. The paths are really too intricate and the circuits become repetitive at the end. Generally I liked your Milano-Roma, with some interesting arrivals like that of Collevalenza. The final arrival, however, is bad. For Bissagne the same considerations: nice MTF, although probably in this period it would be snowy.

SECOND PLACE: JoostvandeBeek
You follow the indications, and for this alone you deserve the podium. Of the Milan-Rome I loved the time trial and the final arrival finally in the center. However, all sprint arrivals are dangerous, with curves few before arrival and this does not allow you to be higher. The other race is nothing special, all borderline.

FIRST PLACE: Davandluz
One of the few that respects all the indications of the contest and is not limited to the creation of two new races. I loved very much your Milan-Rome, which has many points of contact with mine; I would have preferred a final in the historic center. Bissagne is also beautiful, so the same considerations apply, only a stage of the walls seems to me too light.

Re: Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 30/04/2021, 23:27
by Diego12Alpe
FIFTH PLACE - mauro
I think your Milan - Roma has more opportunities for sprinters than I would like to see, but good time trial and good last stage. The first three stages of your Bissagne - Languedoc are too flat but in two of them we could see a little bit of movements so it's okay. I also like your stage ending in Mont Saint-Clair but I think it would be better if it ends in the flat after the descent.

FOURTH PLACE - Zaufkauf
Your Bissagne - Languedoc I think is a nice race with a little bit of everything. Your Milan - Rome is also a race that have a little bit of everything but in my opinion the problem with your races is that I don't find in any of them a very well done stage and they are all just okay and together they make a good race.

THIRD PLACE - benoît.guillot
Good ideas and well done following the instructions. I think both of your races should have at least one stage above 200km and not that much opportunities for sprinters. Despite all of that, you made some great stages like the one ending in Martinet.

SECOND PLACE - Micek_52
My opinion of your Milan - Rome is that I think the third stage would be better if it ends after the descend of the first category climb and also that the stage ending in Siena could have more white roads to make it more Strade-Bianche looking. I really like the last stage. In your Bissagne - Languedoc the fifth stage should have shorter and steeper hills, the other stages are okay.

FIRST PLACE - jibvalverde
Similar idea to me in Milan - Rome, but I would like to see at least one stage above 200km. I really like your last two stages. In your Bissagne - Languedoc I think any of your stages is perfect but all of them have a good idea behind and if you put them together the result is a great race.

Re: Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 30/04/2021, 23:32
by davandluz
5th Zaufkauf --> I really like your Bissagne-Languedoc entry, although I really did not understand the ending in Agde (I think you misplaed the finish line), and the 5th stage has an unpracticable climb (the decisive côte of Hautpoul). There are more problems in the Milano-Roma: not convinced about the Civiglio in the first stage, the Lucca stage seems quite dull, and the Bracciano final mur is unpracticable. I do like the ITT though.

4th nebe --> I am honestly not completely sold on your tracks, but there are some good notes about it: I like the endings of the first and the fifth stage of the Milano-Roma, and the final day is very good. Likewise, in France you propose a nice track in . There are, however, some mistakes, particularly in the French tour. First off, the fifth stage is not really what was supposed to be delivered (but you're not the only one who got it - at least in my opinion - wrong). The Béziers ending is quite senseless and dangerous, it would've been better to leave it to pure sprinters. The high mountain stage is a bit too much, and finally you could've chosen a harder climb than Côte de Bérot for puncheurs in the second stage. I also did not understand the Brescia intour in the second stage of the Milano-Roma.

3rd jibvalverde --> I see some issues with your Milano-Roma: the Bologna ITT is a bit too much on the hard side; the Teramo stage does no convince me, either, and the final stage is really on the edge of accetability for total Kms. On the other hand, I like the French tour (even though I would've chosen a less complex final for the Leucate sprint, the road is too narrow).

2nd BETTO --> I liked both your entries. First off, you respected the intructions; then, you made some interesting choiced and some stages are very good (as the ones ending in Toulouse and in Fiesole). Looking at the downsides, I want to point out three things. Firstly, the tracking should be "cleaned up" a bit: some finish lines are placed in wrong places in my opinion, as the first stage of the Milano-Roma between the Oreno potato fields or the last straight choice in the next stage in Sassuolo; then - what I think is the mistake for which I can't place you any higher - the Via Appia cobble section should not be used in a cycling race, as it is a historic site to be preserved (and having all the cars and motorcycles going on it at a pretty high speed does not seem the best way to preserve it - it is in fact closed to traffic). Secondly, the total Km are too few for both races (you have no stage reaching 180 Km in the Milano-Roma). Lastly, I think the choice of putting the ITT of the Italian tour just before the high mountain stage is not the best.

1st Diego12Alpe --> The Italian tour is on spot (last stage is a bit too long, though, and the first two stages appeal similar types of riders). In the Bissagne-Languedoc, I think you did an ok job. I think you repeat the Foix stage circuit two times too many, and I am really not sure about the feasibility of descent after Roquefixade (unrelated note: I wanted my 3rd stage of the tour to end in Roquefixade, but changed my mind after noting it was too difficult to organize an arrival there - and it was unlikely they had the money anyways).

Re: Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 01/05/2021, 0:23
by jajoejoe
A bit too late but at least I voted opposed to others.…

5th place: Mauro
Nicely kept to the rules, I think though that the final stage in Milan-Rome doesn’t deserve the term mountain stage as the rules said it should be. For Bissagne-Languedoc I don’t like that 3/4 flat stages have similar type of finishes, could be mixed a little bit more.

4th place: Zaufkauf
I’m not really enthousiastic. But it also doesn’t have any flaws so 4th place.

3rd place: Joostvandebeek
I especially like the last stage of Milan-Rome which ad it should be is a mountain stage. Overall just a decent route.

2ndt place: Diego12alpe
I’m a big fan of your routes. Really great. Only critique I have is that sometimes you have reall hard climbs in the middle of a stage and then an unexciting part after it. Like the stage to Ravenna and in a lesser way the stage to Pau.

1st place: Jibvalverde
Just exeptional. Every stage is amazing, the timetrial in M-R is perfectly balanced. Every stage can be won by a different rider. For me alone at the top

Re: Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 01/05/2021, 12:15
by Micek_52
Sorry for being a bit late but i did not have much time in the last few weeks:

5. Jajoejoe:
Milano-Roma could have one more flat stage instead of a Hilly one. Also stage 5 of Bissagne is a bit too hard.

4. Zaufkauf:
Same as before, didn't like the 5th stage of Bissagne too much. Also Stage 1 of Milano-Roma is too hard (Civiglio)

3. Mauro:
The final stage of Milano-Roma is a bit anticlimatic, but otherwise good routes.

2. Diego12Alpe:
Really liked both routes, the only reason you didn't get first is that you had too high climbs in Pyrenees

1. Jibvalverde:
Well balanced routes, all rules followed and no obvious mistakes.

Re: Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 01/05/2021, 12:30
by JoostvandeBeek
I am a little late with my votes but I hope they still get accepted :63:

5th place: Benoît.guillot
Your routes fit the description, but for your Milan-Rome I was missing a pure puncheur stage and the last stage was a little too soft in my opinion. Your Bissagne-Languedoc was a solid route, but the final TT was way too long and too hard.

4th place: Belgian44
Two solid routes, but again I thought the last stage for Milan-Rome was too soft. I would have liked your B-L better if you also went to Station du Mourtis instead on stopping on top fo the Col de Menté and the walls stage could have been a little harder, but overall still a good route

3rd place: davandluz
I had little to comment on both your routes, a good variety of sprint and puncheur stages for both tours. The walls stage in B-L is maybe on the soft side

2nd place: jibvalverde
A really nice Milan-Roma with a very nice looking time trial. I also liked your final stage, as it difficult enough. For your B-L I liked your choice to go to de Pic de Nore, and the Walls stage is very well designed. The second and third stage were a bit too hard, but still a very good route.

1st place: mauro
Two very nice routes for both races. The first stages in your M-R are tricky which makes them unpredictable, also really like your strade bianche stage and a good TT. And although the last stage is not a pure mountain stage, it still has a sufficient degree of difficulty. Your G-L also has some nice tricky stages which were not too hard and while I not a big fan of the uphill finish in Sète, it could work. The only thing I was not sure of is your city circuit in Pau, but still two very good routes

Re: Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 01/05/2021, 18:09
by emmea90
Voting is closed.

Re: Contest #2 - Milan-Rome and Bissagne-Languedoc [Cat. 2] - Voting

Posted: 01/05/2021, 18:17
by emmea90
Results
Jibvalverde 46
Diego12Alpe 27
Davandluz 25
Mauro 24
CelentanoTour 14
IamCeeKae 11
Micek_52 11
Zaufkauf 11
Benoit.guillot 10
Jajoejoe 9
Belgian4444 7
Betto 4
JoostvandeBeek 3
Nebe -5
Sagan99 -6
Brumdog66 -7
Cycling Lennart -7
L EncreEspion -7
Pesallu -7
Luna23 -10